Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:32 am  

Time to reintroduce the dog licence, except based on the ability of the owner to control the dog rather than ability to pay.

If you have to show you're competent to own a car or a gun, why not a dog?

If it has the consequence of reducing demand for dogs and hurting the puppy farming industry in the pocket, even better.

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:49 am  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Time to reintroduce the dog licence, except based on the ability of the owner to control the dog rather than ability to pay.

If you have to show you're competent to own a car or a gun, why not a dog?

If it has the consequence of reducing demand for dogs and hurting the puppy farming industry in the pocket, even better.

I agree in principle but the problem with that Andy is every law abiding, responsible dog owner will comply (same if you make microchipping law) but I can't see every hoody wearing, gang member, chav complying. It will also be very hard to police.

In my opinion, you should be made to go on a 6 weeks training course when you get a dog. The breeder or rescue should only legally hand the dog over to you once you have the certificate to say you have completed the basic training course. I have even gone further than that, my two have passed their bronze Kennel Club Good Citizen Award and we would have gone on to do silver and gold had I not go too ill.

I agree more needs to be done about puppy farming. If no one bought a dog from them, they would disappear. We need more awareness about puppy farms and the dangers of buying a dog from them.

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:14 am  

They just need to be more strict with the breeds people are allowed to breed and keep. There really is no need for dogs that have been specifically bred for aggression and violence to be permitted as pets. Kill them all. I just don't understand why anyone would want to own the pitbull/Staff type breeds anyway, given they are such a massive symbol of chav culture.

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:21 am  

Saddened! wrote:

They just need to be more strict with the breeds people are allowed to breed and keep. There really is no need for dogs that have been specifically bred for aggression and violence to be permitted as pets. Kill them all. I just don't understand why anyone would want to own the pitbull/Staff type breeds anyway, given they are such a massive symbol of chav culture.

So you would ban the GSD because the police use them for agression and to stop criminals? Have you ever owned a bull breed? Obviously not. I didn't rescue my staffy cross because I am a chav, I rescued her because she was going to be put to sleep within hours because her 7 days were up at the pound. And I'm so glad I did because she is the most loyal and loving dog you've ever known.

Thanks for tarring us all with the same brush

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:44 am  

The Video Ref wrote:

Re no crime of violence being committed. I have known people get compensation for psychological injuries.

I'm trying to help with a specific question in this specific case, not write a book on every possible aspect of the CIC scheme. If you want to go off-topic, if someone set an attack dog on me, intending that it attacked me, and whilst it didn't catch me, I suffered post traumatic stress, then technically I could claim, but that is because it would still have been a crime of violence.

The Video Ref wrote:

Looks as though those involved have suffered some psychological injuries, and the girl suffered injury to her hand. Would this not be enough? (I seem to recall a £1000 threshold that you had to cross and that trivial injuries were not compensated).

Probably enough IF she could claim, but you only get to that once you qualify by having been the victim of violent crime.

The Video Ref wrote:

I note the woman has been charged, presumably with having a dangerously out of control dog or something to that effect. Thus I guess an argument could be made, however spurious, that the OP did suffer as the result of a criminal act.

But not that it was a crime of violence. As I said, it is not a question of a criminal act, but suffering a "crime of violence". So, if the dog had been deliberately set on the victim with the intent of causing her injury, yes, if not, no.

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:49 am  

Hull White Star wrote:

So you would ban the GSD because the police use them for agression and to stop criminals?

German Shepherds are actually a good example of a dog that has had good publicity and bad publicity for decades - they changed the name of the breed to "Alsation" during the war years to prevent association with the hun

As its name suggests its actually a shepherd dog and not a dog that was originally bred for fighting and other than having a natural guarding instinct for its "pack" it shouldn't have any aggresion in its nature at all.

What it is, is an intelligent animal that can be easily trained to do whatever its owner wants it to do, I have a couple of relations and a close friend who are/have been dog handlers in the Police and RAF - the Police specifically don't want aggressive GSD's, its one of the things that they look for in a puppys first year (most UK Police forces breed their own dogs or use specific breeders now and don't accept gift dogs), what they want is an obedient dog who will bark and look aggressive on command and importantly, stop doing so on command, the dogs do this because to them its a game and they get rewarded for doing so, in the same way that spaniels don't actually like looking for drugs, they do it because they get a reward when they find some, its a game.

All of which is to say that the GSD can be trained to act in an aggressive way, can be trained to seize a person and hold them (try and drag your arm from a 40kg dogs mouth when he thinks the game is to try and not let go ), but then will switch off when commanded to - if a police dog won't release on command or if it remains agitated after being recalled then it will fail its one year assesment.

None of which applies to the GSD's that the Military Police use

One of my brother-in-laws was badly mauled by one of the base dogs when he was stationed in Germany simply for entering its cage with some food, the difference in the RAF is that they DO accept "gift dogs" and so have no history of the nature of the dog, they also encourage aggression as their dogs have a guarding task rather than crowd control or man-capture, and importantly the dogs are base dogs, they are kenneled on base every night and do not have the same handler from one day to the next - and when they reach seven years of age they are "retired" with the aid of a vet and a syringe of anesthetic, as re-homing them is not an option, nor is repatriatating them with the cost of quarantine.

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:23 pm  

a Staffordshire went for my young cousin once on the field that my grans house backs on to, I was about 9 so she must have been 3 or 4, it jumped up at her pushing her over and jumped on top of her, before it got anywhere near her face my older brother absolutely booted it(he's no goal kicker but he was a prop). My Grandad who ran out the house ended up in a shouting match with the dogs owner because it was our fault that the dog was near us apparently. The owner was the dodgy d1ckhead of the neighbourhood and had left the dog to play with his kids outside. His kids turned out pretty dodgy too so this points towards the whole bad parents and bad dog owners sort of thing.

Like others have said, more needs to done about owners of dogs and not just the dogs, mates of mine have dogs you would consider as aggressive/violent breeds and they're all loving dogs, obviously if you were violent towards these dogs they would stick up for themselves, like most dogs would. People need to learn to control their dogs and take responsibility for the wellbeing of their dogs and anyone it may pose a danger to - if someone starts annoying your dog, tell them.

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:26 pm  

As an owner of a Springer spaniel and a soon to be Father for the first time, stories like yours really affect me and you have all my thoughts.

To lose a member of the family in that fashion must be horrific. I darent even mention your story to our lass for fear of upsetting her

Regarding the discussion about certain dog breeds, in my experience there is no such thing as a bad dog and the dogs behavior is the result of its owner. If a puppy is not socialised with other dogs then it can lead to aggression in later life.

Some breeds are certainly more capable of doing damage but all dogs can have that aggression if not properly trained and controlled.

One option that i would certainly investigate would be the practice of neutering or spaying dogs that will not be used for breeding. If the dog licence was to be re-introduced then that could perhaps be a pre-requisite of ownership for everyone but registered breeders.

I would not normally post sympathetic messages to forum members, but your story has really touched a nerve. What ever the outcome of your ordeal. I wish you and your daughter especially the very best.

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:32 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Time to reintroduce the dog licence, except based on the ability of the owner to control the dog rather than ability to pay.

Top shout.

Re: O/T Dog attack/ Can any one please help me. : Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:01 pm  

Saddened! wrote: They just need to be more strict with the breeds people are allowed to breed and keep. . what like jack russells and collie types!!! http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Gr ... story.html to the OP. i hope you can get some sort of justice for your lovely dog and also your daughter.

Saddened! wrote: They just need to be more strict with the breeds people are allowed to breed and keep. . what like jack russells and collie types!!! http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Gr ... story.html to the OP. i hope you can get some sort of justice for your lovely dog and also your daughter.