Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:23 am  

Slightly off tangent here

The grounds safety certificate was 10 years out of date

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:27 am  

Dally wrote:

So, as well as the police (who presumably made the end allocation and refused to open the cage doors when people were pleading with them and dying in front of them - something which could be seen on TV even before the TV commentators realised what was happening), the FA must shoulder some of the blame for choosing the venue.

Quite so. I skimmed through some of the report yesterday and it covers problems at a game at Hillsborough in 1981 (I think) that led to the ground not being used for semis again until 1987, then Leeds fans from that semi being squashed into Leppings Lane, then 1988 Liverpool/Forest, where fans were again crammed into Leppings Lane. Its a miracle that it didn't happen before 89, but the FA, Sheffield Wednesday and Sheffield Council have to take a chunk of the blame for the events of that day on the back of this evidence.

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:10 am  

Dally wrote:

I thought the hypocrisy of the Labour party in parliament yesterday was staggering. Anyone who had a pair of eyes or had ever been to a big football match in those days could see the main issues. Despite the bereaved families' constant campaigning in all their years in government, what did Labour do for what used to be it's "class" (if as some suggest this was a class issue). Fair play to Cameron. I actually think the Tories will get some votes in Liverpool as a result of this (the city was the first Labour stronghold to lose faith in Labour previously).

The Independent Panel was setup by a Labour government.
If anything this will simply remind people in Liverpool of what the right wing is like in this country.
In 2010 all Liverpool constituencies were won by Labour.

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:18 am  

Him wrote:

The Independent Panel was setup by a Labour government.
If anything this will simply remind people in Liverpool of what the right wing is like in this country.
In 2010 all Liverpool constituencies were won by Labour.

Exactly right

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:30 am  

peggy wrote:

You need to get yourself a decent chair, all that slouching around will damage your back.
Might I suggest one of these? Thoroughly recommend it.

Here's one that Mr MacKenzie should make himself comfy in.

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:36 am  

Good old bumbling Boris, eh? 'ee's a right laugh.

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:40 am  

I'm surprised that anyone can think that the best efforts of Sth Yorks Police and Ambulance and the Thatcher Government were anything but class and politically inspired and indeed Jack Straw has said as much today and been shot down by Norman Tebbitt (like you'd trust his take on things), I can only think that those who suggest otherwise were probably too young to appreciate the vicious class war that was conducted throughout the 1980s, the battering of the unions, the crushing of the likes of Derek Hatton and Ken Livingstone - some of this may have been deserved depending on your point of view but when those in authority falsify documents and facts and then go further to incriminate those whom they regarded (at the time) as being from an area of direct opposition to them politically, then you are treading into very dangerous ground, the sort of distorting of the truth that we are more used to seeing in South American dictatorships, its hardly surprising that even senior Tories finally turned against Thatcher before we started to see opposition politicians "disappear" as in Chile and Argentina.

[John_D]

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:48 am  

Him wrote:

The Independent Panel was setup by a Labour government.
If anything this will simply remind people in Liverpool of what the right wing is like in this country.
In 2010 all Liverpool constituencies were won by Labour.

I have no idea why any football fan would ever vote Conservative. We are not proper citizens. We weren't then and we aren't now.



The fact I have no idea why anyone would ever vote Conservative is a side issue...

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:50 am  

Dally wrote:

The problem with Hillsborough was it was just not safe in the way it was used in those days. The standing room at the end were the people were crushed was tiny compared with the large Kop at the other end. Nevertheless, it always seemed that supporters of teams from the NW of England were always put in that end for big matches (I believe due to the direction of incoming traffic and the wish for segregation). Such clubs tended to have much bigger travelling support than the opposition. It seemed that despite this they tried to cram a big number in a spabe designed for a fraction of that number. I say that because I was fearful myself some years earlier for an Everton v Aston Villa League Cup replay there. Such was the crush that not only could we not move our hands and hardly breathe but my steel watch actually got mangled as the crowd moved but arms could not be!

So, as well as the police (who presumably made the end allocation and refused to open the cage doors when people were pleading with them and dying in front of them - something which could be seen on TV even before the TV commentators realised what was happening), the FA must shoulder some of the blame for choosing the venue.

Every football thug involved in trouble at that time can take their share of the blame for my money! The outrageous behaviour of hundreds of numpties on a weekly basis lead to football grounds looking like zoos. The hideous fences then served to stop people escaping onto the pitch. Well done fellas!

Re: Kelvin MacKenzie : Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:51 am  

gulfcoast_highwayman wrote:

Good old bumbling Boris, eh? 'ee's a right laugh.

I could be wrong but I don't think Boris Johnson actually wrote that article, he was the Editor of the magazine?

If so your image is quite misleading.

He has also apologised - twice, what more do people want from him.