Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:07 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

There are a few choices. You either raise income taxes ...

Or simply collect the corporation tax that should be due/paid.

Saddened! wrote:

... have a health scheme like the US where you pay for what you use (I'd be fine with that on moral grounds) ...

Are those the "moral grounds" where insurance companies get to, in effect, sign death warrants on people that they have taken money from and then refuse to pay out for, particularly when it comes to long-term conditions? Do you mean those "moral grounds"?

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:24 pm  

Saddened! should be culled now. It's for the best.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:14 pm  

Those of us fortunate enough to have a job have to work to provide the taxes to provide the funding for the benefits. Can no one see why those that do work resent supporting those that "do not want to work" and would like to see them at least contribute something for the money.

There are those who are genuinely incapable of working through mental/physical illness but these are the minority allbeit a sizable minority who must be adequately provided for. The rest could do "like to do" community projects that would not happen as finite finances dictate funds must be directed elsewhere.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:41 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Those of us fortunate enough to have a job have to work to provide the taxes to provide the funding for the benefits. Can no one see why those that do work resent supporting those that "do not want to work" and would like to see them at least contribute something for the money...

Claiming yourself as representative of everyone, are you?

On what grounds?

And did you notice that this thread is about pensions – not 'those who don't work like wot I do'.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:48 pm  

I know things have changed since I was claiming the dole, but you had to declare that you had sought work and not been able to find it to qualify (and of course that was checked rigourously).

How does this "work for your benefit" operate on that basis. If you aren't available for work because you're brushing IDS's drive with a toothbrush, how do you qualify for the dole?

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:58 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

I know things have changed since I was claiming the dole, but you had to declare that you had sought work and not been able to find it to qualify (and of course that was checked rigourously).

How does this "work for your benefit" operate on that basis. If you aren't available for work because you're brushing IDS's drive with a toothbrush, how do you qualify for the dole?

How are you supposed to be looking for work if you're working? Would you get 'time off' to look for work – or travel to interviews? Would you lose benefit for that time required to go about the business of finding a job (when unemployment is high)?

I honestly don't think they care about such points.

They've got so many people worked up about 'benefits scroungers' that they don't need to care about the workability or practicality of any scheme.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:45 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

I know things have changed since I was claiming the dole, but you had to declare that you had sought work and not been able to find it to qualify (and of course that was checked rigourously).

How does this "work for your benefit" operate on that basis. If you aren't available for work because you're brushing IDS's drive with a toothbrush, how do you qualify for the dole?

The professional benefits claimers are wise to the system. My Mother and Father in law haven't worked a day in their lives, own a car, a caravan in Wales and go on holiday twice a year. They went to the meetings, pretended they are looking. They even get sent for interviews and trials at different places, but to quote them, they 'act like zombies and pretend to be stupid' so they get knocked back. They had a major boost a couple of years ago when one was given disability benefits as well because of their weight and it's associated conditions, so the other got to claim carers allowance . They are not rare in society either, one person in their street of about 12 houses works and he's a scrap metal merchant who doesn't declare anything. Under Labour it really was a lifestyle choice and every attempt to disincentivise it is attacked.

As for working for your benefits, it would be easy to apply a limit. You have to do 20/30 (Whatever) hours a week and its up to you how you do this. You can easily fit pretending to be looking for a job around that. It would obviously have no bearing on your ability to claim benefits and would entitle you to claim them in fact (They can call it plebs allowance, rather than job seekers in that instance). Fail to do your hours, you lose your benefit on a pro-rata basis.

Back to the pensions issue, it's clear something needs to be done.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:51 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

As for working for your benefits, it would be easy to apply a limit. You have to do 20/30 (Whatever) hours a week and its up to you how you do this. You can easily fit pretending to be looking for a job around that. It would obviously have no bearing on your ability to claim benefits and would entitle you to claim them in fact (They can call it plebs allowance, rather than job seekers in that instance). Fail to do your hours, you lose your benefit on a pro-rata basis.

Yeah good plan. 30 hours a week is almost full time. So can I have a top up on my salary

Anyway, back to pensions. Let's make people who paid their dues up to now go back to work to earn the pension they've already paid for.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:58 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

That is precisely the point here.

Are there any figures anywhere for how that calculation would pan out over the average life?

Average salary = £27k ish? NI at 11% would be roughly £3,000 x 47 years = roughly £140,000 over the average life.

Just for the hell of it I entered £140,000 into a pension annuity calculator and assuming that your "pot" was that big the best rates that the small range of providers would offer ranged from £527 to £690 per month for a non-smoker aged 65.

Its a great indicator that its nigh-on impossible for the average person - and within that average will be many lower waged, for obvious reasons - to afford a private pension, if we assumed that everyone ONLY paid NIS for their pension provision and NOTHING towards healthcare, then you could look forward to a pension of around £175 per week upon retirement, if you ever arrived at retirement, not having any healthcare and all - you wouldn't arrive there for a start

My children are expected to make their own provisions for their pensions whilst at the same time still paying NIS for their own healthcare and for my state pension.

How the fook does that work then ?

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:14 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

... Back to the pensions issue, it's clear something needs to be done.

Indeed.

Decent pensions for all.

BTW, I'm delighted that you reported your corrupt parents and have not, yourself, benefitted from their behaviour.