Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:40 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Well its now becoming slightly clearer as the "Fresh Start Group" have four main demands for what they want:

• A complete repatriation of social and employment laws such as the working time directive which imposes a 48-hour working week. Britain has an opt-out from that aspect of the directive.

• A opt-out from all criminal justice measures.

• An "emergency brake" that would give Britain an effective veto over new financial services regulations which are currently decided by qualified majority voting (QMV).

• An end to the monthly plenary sessions of the European parliament held in Strasbourg.

That reads very much like a "we only want the bits we like" manifesto with no room for a compromise to get something. Why do they think the UK would get a veto when they basically want the UK to say stuff the EU? Nonsense.

Re: The Tories & Europe : Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:34 am  

Chris28 wrote:

That reads very much like a "we only want the bits we like" manifesto with no room for a compromise to get something. Why do they think the UK would get a veto when they basically want the UK to say stuff the EU? Nonsense.

Yes, they seem to want to be able to veto elements of the fiscal union whilst remaining outside of it.
I' m thinking this is because they are worried about the City (outside the fiscal union) losing trade to Frankfurt (inside the fiscal union)... but refusing to compromise will only accelerate that loss of trade.

Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:24 am  

Cameron is putting all of his faith into one belief - that the voters of the UK are stupid.

He's hoping that dangling the carrot of a future referendum on Europe will be sufficient to return the tories with a clear majority, it's a high risk strategy and one that gives an insight into the arrogance of the man and the party he leads.

It's extremely doubtful that we'll be allowed to cherry-pick the bits of the EU we want and leave the rest. In the remote chance that we were able to do that, what happens when the rest of the 27 decide that they'd like something similar?

Meanwhile, the uncertainty created will only harm investment in the UK or the expansion of UK companies into Europe. Why would any non-EU company choose to invest in the UK if they aren't certain that we'll still be a part of the EU in 10 years time? Similarly, why would any UK company invest in European expansion for the same reasons?

One thing is certain: any powers that may possibly be repatriated will only lead to a weakening of the rights and protections of UK citizens to the advantage of the privileged few

[Kosh]

Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:56 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Cameron is putting all of his faith into one belief - that the voters of the UK are stupid.

Actually it's more that he's confident that our hugely anti-EU media will do the job for him. You only have to look at this morning's pathetic coverage on BBC Breakfast - asking the head of Timpson's for his opinion FFS!

Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:40 am  

Kosh wrote:

Actually it's more that he's confident that our hugely anti-EU media will do the job for him

Unfortunately he's going to promise the "people" what they have been convinced they want, the vast majority that would vote "out" in a referendum on Europe are closed minded little Englanders that would do it just to give "johnny foreigner" a bloody nose. It explains why Cameron doesn't want Farage involved in TV debates, he doesn't want to split his own votes.

I'm increasingly convinced that none of them, Conservative,Lib Dem or Labour are actually any better than each other, which means in the next election I can probably not vote, unless we get a Brewsters Millions "none of the above" option (and assuming whichever civil servant that orders the printing doesn't list them first!)

Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:20 am  

cod'ead wrote:

One thing is certain: any powers that may possibly be repatriated will only lead to a weakening of the rights and protections of UK citizens to the advantage of the privileged few

if only there was some way of protesting against this to make sure the 'privileged few' don't get their own way. what we need is every 4/5 years a, oh what shall we call it, an election or something where the oppressed masses can finally free themselves of the shackles that hold them. a chance for every adult to decide the fate of the country. i know, it's a crazy idea, but we have to dream.

Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:25 am  

[quote="DaveO"]You will find it is mostly to do with employment legislation such as the working time directive.

What EU employment law does is protect the majority of people in this country from unscrupulous employers and the Tories would love to repeal all of it so people end up with no job security or employment rights whatsoever.quote]
then the trade union movement will rise from the ashes and children will once again descend from chimneys. the communist utopia so craved by crowe, mccluskey et al will finally be realised. vote 'out' comrades, it's the only way.

Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:29 am  

samwire wrote:

if only there was some way of protesting against this to make sure the 'privileged few' don't get their own way. what we need is every 4/5 years a, oh what shall we call it, an election or something where the oppressed masses can finally free themselves of the shackles that hold them. a chance for every adult to decide the fate of the country. i know, it's a crazy idea, but we have to dream.

Just the sort of smart-arse comment I'd expect from someone with little comprehension of how these things work. The problem is, once something has been broken up, sold for scrap and the money spent, there's little that can be done to repair it again. As Labour will discover when they try to repair the damage to the NHS, or as has already been discovered with the selling off of utilities, rail & bus transport, North Sea oil & gas, council house building etc...

Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:48 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Just the sort of smart-arse comment I'd expect from someone with little comprehension of how these things work. The problem is, once something has been broken up, sold for scrap and the money spent, there's little that can be done to repair it again. As Labour will discover when they try to repair the damage to the NHS, or as has already been discovered with the selling off of utilities, rail & bus transport, North Sea oil & gas, council house building etc...

governments can do pretty much whatever they like. if they want to nationalise anything they can, and indeed have done in the past. why would labour want to repair the nhs when they're the ones who kicked to door in to the private sector getting involved? capita? take your time on that one.
oh, you forgot the gold sell off too.
still you keep fighting this mythical class war. get your donkey jacket on a light a brazier or something.

who said

‘Let me make it crystal clear that any privatisation of the railway system that does take place will, on the arrival of a Labour Government, be quickly and effectively dealt with . . . and be returned to public ownership.’

‘Let me give this pledge not just to this Conference but to the people of Britain. The next Labour Government . . . will bring the railway system back into public ownership.’

‘If there are any investors listening who are thinking of buying into our rail system, I have a message for them. The railways depend on public subsidies to the tune of £1.8 billion a year. There is no guarantee that subsidy will continue. If you want to buy a pig in a poke in all those circumstances, then it is up to you, but don’t come crying to me when it all ends in tears.’

‘To anyone thinking of grabbing our railways, built up over the years, so they can make a quick profit as our network is broken up and sold off, I say this: there will be a publicly owned and publicly accountable railway system under a Labour government.’

[Kosh]

Re: The Tories & Europe : Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:24 am  

Standee wrote:

Unfortunately he's going to promise the "people" what they have been convinced they want, the vast majority that would vote "out" in a referendum on Europe are closed minded little Englanders that would do it just to give "johnny foreigner" a bloody nose. It explains why Cameron doesn't want Farage involved in TV debates, he doesn't want to split his own votes.

He might have shot himself in the foot here. I don't know of a single owner of a business involved in any way in international trade that wants us out of the EU. It's economic suicide and they know it. Many of these people are large contributors to the Conservative party.

He may end up with a happy back bench but no money to run a campaign.

Standee wrote:

I'm increasingly convinced that none of them, Conservative,Lib Dem or Labour are actually any better than each other, which means in the next election I can probably not vote, unless we get a Brewsters Millions "none of the above" option (and assuming whichever civil servant that orders the printing doesn't list them first!)

I find myself seriously considering voting Green. Which is pretty worrying TBH.