Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:55 pm  

Advice to immigrants worried that they may commit a crime while in the UK which will result in being deported.

Bring a cat

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:15 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Thanks for confirming that the legal system can be safely added to the long and ever increasing list of subjects you appear to be completely clueless about

Let's dissect this a little - given you have such a high opinion of your knowledge:

1. Who pays the judges?
2. What is the role of a judge?

Two easy ones for you to get to grips with?

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:57 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Let's dissect this a little - given you have such a high opinion of your knowledge:

1. Who pays the judges?
2. What is the role of a judge?

Two easy ones for you to get to grips with?

There's a PDF floating around on t'interweb called "The Bench Book", its the sentencing guidelines for magistrates, not judges to be sure but after reading the guidelines to what a magistrate has to take into consideration for the fairly minor offences that they are allowed to judge on, then you may appreciate what sort of task a High Court Judge has when considering a far more complex case, and hence why, in your eyes, on the limited amount of information that is generally reported on, you assume that High Court judges make it up as they go along, there are guidelines, not set rules, and they are open to interpretation and where too lenient or too harsh are open to review and appeal - the system works without fekkin politicians playing at the game as well.

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:01 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Let's dissect this a little - given you have such a high opinion of your knowledge:

1. Who pays the judges?
2. What is the role of a judge?

Two easy ones for you to get to grips with?

We live in and under English Law, this is not Burma.

Your original comment exhibited an alarming degree of ignorance of the legal processes of this country, this latest one only compounds that. But I will answer your questions:

1) The taxpayer

2) To apply the law.

As fas as 2) is concerned, this does not mean second guessing what a Home Secretary may have thought he/she meant to happen when the law was drafted and enacted. Poorly drafted laws invariably lead to bad justice.

You could do worse than read a little about Baroness Helena Kennedy QC

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:56 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

We live in and under English Law, this is not Burma.

Your original comment exhibited an alarming degree of ignorance of the legal processes of this country, this latest one only compounds that. But I will answer your questions:

1) The taxpayer

2) To apply the law.

As fas as 2) is concerned, this does not mean second guessing what a Home Secretary may have thought he/she meant to happen when the law was drafted and enacted. Poorly drafted laws invariably lead to bad justice.

You could do worse than read a little about Baroness Helena Kennedy QC

So you would accept my comments about them being public servants and implementing the due legal process to be correct?

We at last getting somewhere - I agree re poorly drafted legislation but that is where judicial law comes in? At the end of the day legislation goes through numerous amendments before implimentation with advice from a host a experienced legal bods to advise - if it still wrong after all that I am not sure what can be done.

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:20 pm  

Judges do not write legislation.

They do however make "the law" by making decisions which create a binding legal precedent based on their interpretation of the legislation in front of them.

[DaveO]

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:44 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Judges do not write legislation.

They do however make "the law" by making decisions which create a binding legal precedent based on their interpretation of the legislation in front of them.

I was wondering when someone would mention precedent. It's one of the most fundamental mechanisms by which our laws have evolved and to a large degree prevents laws being interpreted differently from one day to the next.

As to the issue May wants to deal with it is what she has decided is the misuse of a clause in the ECHR about the right to a family life being abused to prevent people being deported.

What she can do about that without breaking the UK's commitment to the ECHR is a bit of a mystery.

And before anyone says this is "Europe" interfering in domestic issues, no it isn't. We were signed up to the ECHR long before we joined the Common Market that eventually became the EU. All that happened a few years back was the ECHR was accepted into our legal framework which meant judges and others had to work within its laws directly. This saved the time, cost and effort of people having to appeal domestic rulings to the European Court. So had this not happened people would still be able to appeal based on "the right to a family life" to the court and such cases would just drag on even longer.

IMO if May gets it through that judges must interpret this clause differently then all that will do is force defendants to go to the European Court on appeal as they will claim the UK courts have not considered their human rights in accordance with the convention. UK courts being told to ignore the convention by the UK government won't cut it.

I can see the next step being this being used as an excuse to withdraw from the convention and no UK citizen in their rights minds should want that.

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:06 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Judges do not write legislation.

They do however make "the law" by making decisions which create a binding legal precedent based on their interpretation of the legislation in front of them.

Agreed. Of course, our Common Law system is fundamentally different from other major Western European countries. It is for this reason that until the EU legal system is changed (to ours - superior in my opinion), then we should not be in the EU. We ARE different in this very fundamental way and the legal system goes to the very heart of what "Britishness" is.

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:16 pm  

Dally wrote:

...and to introduce it in the first place.......and Ed now having a great new idea... to introduce a 10p tax rate! That's such a great election swinging idea, one to really get the UK going forward, the sort of big idea that only a great statesman could conceive.

You're right, Brown introduced the 10p rate and he also abolished it ... in favour of working tax credits.
However, those tax credits (which seemed a fine idea at the time, helping the "strivers") and the lack of sufficient increase in the minimum wage have led to employers holding down wages below levels at which they wouldn't even have had applicants if not for the working tax credits to make up the difference. (That's when they don't get JSA workers for free, paid for by the taxpayer).

To admit that error (which he has .. and when was the last time you saw a politician do that?) and say he'll re-introduce the 10p rate is, to my mind, admirable ... and I'd like see more of the same please.

Your thin sarcasm about it being "the sort of big idea that only a great statesman could conceive" is misplaced, I don't think it is being billed as a "big idea" and, to my mind, should be only a part of a raft of measures that are required, including a substantial rise in the minimum wage, at least to the touted "living wage" level.

El Barbudo's "Well I never knew that" Corner
.... did you know that the USA introduced a federal minimum wage as long ago as 1938 and Obama is trying to get it raised to $9?
No, neither did I until I read it today .... What a bunch o' commies, eh?

Re: Theresa May announces a bumper payday for migration lawy : Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:10 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Advice to immigrants worried that they may commit a crime while in the UK which will result in being deported.

Bring a cat

and your not making that up.....or perhaps you are to make a misguided and incorrect point