Re: Controlling Dogs... : Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:24 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

I do think that the law should be changed so that owners are responsible for their dogs.

They already are. Animals Act.

Durham Giant wrote:

As i understand the woman who owned the dogs that killed the girl knew they were dangerous ( although not dangerous breeds) as did all the locals but did nothing.
She should be liable for their actions because her negligence was a contributory factor in what happened.

I don't know what circumstances of negligence have been alleged. What's she supposed to have done? I haven't read of any allegation of any "previous" by any of teh dogs yet they don't seem like young dogs so on what basis? (I would agree that having young/youngish kids alone with a pack of bull mastiff/terrier-type dogs seems like exceptionally poor decision making but expect that it happens on a widespread basis on housing estates up and dow the land on a daily basis.

If she has fallen foul of the requirements of the Animals Act then she IS liable. (That is, to pay compensation). But it wouldn't be much, as the life of a young child isn't worth much in civil law.

If you mean she should be prosecuted, I don't know the full facts, it would seem the CPS have decided no offence has been committed. The criminal law on this subject has been a bit of a shambles for a while, though, but the government has seemingly little appetite to improve it.

Durham Giant wrote:

Even H & S law maybe appropriate

No, not at all relevant.

Durham Giant wrote:

Even a financial penalty although it does nothing to help this poor girl and her family would encourage owners to have to accept some reponsiblity for their pets.

I doubt it would make any difference, in the same way as kids TWOCCing and getting killed does absolutely nothing to teach a lesson to even their mates let alone future TWOCcers.

There is no answer to this if you are going to allow people to keep dogs. As others have pointed out there are that many dogs and that many owners that, whilst you can discuss licences, chips, etc. it seems plain to me that there isn't a cat in hell's chance of the resources which would be needed to adequately implement and constantly police and enforce any such scheme being available now or in the foreseeable and there is absolutely no point in schemes if there isn't the money to run them.

Better criminal law is possible, but I don't know that even a better framed criminal law could have avoided this tragedy.

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:24 pm  

My sister has a rotweiler (bitch) and a 2 year old son. I wouldn't think twice about leaving him alone with her to play in the back garden. He can poke her in the eye and she doesn't even flinch. If someone came into the garden and was a threat to him, she wouldn't let them get near him but wouldn't be dangerous - he probably wouldn't even realise anything was wrong. She is walked a minimum of twice daily on decent length walks. She is great with other dogs.

In contrast, my next door neighbour has a border collie. It's hardly ever walked now and sits in the window all day barking. When she is allowed out into the back garden she goes mental. When it was young I used to walk her as a favour and look after her quite often and she was difficult to control on the lead because her owner doesn't keep her disciplined when they used to walk her.

We took both these dogs for a walk together and the border collie tried to attack the rotweiler and every other dog at every opportunity. I hadn't walked the border collie for a couple of months and only offered becuase the owner seemed to have stopped walking her altogether. It was so viscious that I haven't walked the border collie since. It is brought up in a house which I would describe as crazy and it has rubbed off on the dog.

I have seen both grow up from pups and I feel I can definitely say that the dogs are how they are because of their owners not their breeds.

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:55 pm  

Poor girl what a shocking and terrifying way to die.

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:28 pm  

What was that girl doing in that house while the owners weren't there? Has anybody asked that question yet? Nah, open season on dogs again, it seems.

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:28 am  

She was with the owners daughter apparently and they went to a neighbours to warm up some food and she returned first. The friend returned shortly after to find her mate ripped to shreds by the dogs. HTH Columbo!

[Kosh]

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:54 am  

100% Wire wrote:

What was that girl doing in that house while the owners weren't there? Has anybody asked that question yet? Nah, open season on dogs again, it seems.

You appear to have the most appropriate avatar on RL Fans.

[Durham Giant]

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:36 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

SNIP.

As for the law my understanding is that she cannot be prosecuted because the dogs attacked the girl in private property. If it happened on the street she could have been prosecuted because she did not have control over the dogs in a public place.


My comment about the owners responsibility came from a news report where the female owner of the dogs had apparently told people that she was scared of the dogs and could not control them yet seemed to do nothing about it. If that was the case i would have thought there was some civil liability assuming it could be proved.

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:54 am  

Durham Giant wrote:

As for the law my understanding is that she cannot be prosecuted because the dogs attacked the girl in private property. If it happened on the street she could have been prosecuted because she did not have control over the dogs in a public place.

...and the fact that there had been no previous complaint about the dogs behaviour either inside or outside the property.

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:09 am  

100% Wire wrote:

What was that girl doing in that house while the owners weren't there? Has anybody asked that question yet? Nah, open season on dogs again, it seems.

Yeeeer. And that girl wot got raped the over day, wot was she doing out after dark? Has anybody asked that question yet?

Re: Controlling Dogs... : Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:49 pm  

We have a "nova scotia duck tolling retriever" and he's a bloody brilliant dog. He's the softest most loving dog we've ever had, we got him as a very young puppy when he had been abandoned and he's been brought up in a loving environment. Well looked after and walked twice a day. He was a little git as a puppy at times, nicking food of plates and chewing through thing's etc but that phase passed and we made sure he knew his place. Very passive and patient with kids and generally very affectionate and outgoing. He hasn't had anything snipped or cut off and it's never been an issue for us. He get's excited when it's time for a walk and jumps around a bit but that's nothing out of the ordinary for a dog. He's pretty intelligent and know's what time it is when it comes to walkies... Bark's whenever someone knocks on the door and as soon as the door is opened he will lick them to death.

My mate has a Staffie and he's got a very similar temperament and he's been brought up in a similar environment. When I first saw the dog I was apprehensive but I soon learned otherwise, And I feel bad for the genuine good owners and Dog's like that because I know they aren't all bad, however, be stupid enough to put that dog in a room with 3 other dog's of the same breed, leave them stuck in a house all day and the situation might change.. Unfit owners and bad breeder's are the one's who should be responsible.