Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:30 am  

Standee wrote:

too many people spend beyond their means, and then blame someone else when the bills come in.

Please explain just how trhe fook you budget for not getting a pay rise in ten years, while the cost of most things has gone up exponentially?

Or how do you budget for divorce or illness etc?

[DaveO]

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:07 am  

Lebron James wrote:

Daveo. What Vodafone is doing is nothing like tax avoidance so don't compare them to Gary Barlow. Vodafone do not have to enter a scheme number on their CT600 as there is no scheme, Gary Barlow will have had to disclose the scheme. Vodafone are doing nothing wrong. I bet there are self employed people on here complaining about Vodafone, yet who will do cash in hand jobs. Good on Vodafone I say. They are a plc and whilst they have to consider all stakeholders, the main aim of a plc is to increase shareholder wealth which is what it is doing, I don't see the problem

Regards

King James

Vodafone are avoiding tax by organising their business to do just that. The fact Barlow and Vodafone adopt different ways of doing it is completely irrelevant.

The general consensus is that avoiding tax is wrong. The legal view is if what is done is simply a mechanism to avoid tax it is also illegal. So I so no reason why Vodafone's actions could not be viewed as nothing other than a tax avoidance measure and so be open to challenge in the courts.

The fact you don't see the problem is rather disturbing. The mantra of increasing shareholder wealth is the biggest excuse not to consider all stakeholders particularly a companies employees but especially the tax man.

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:50 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Please explain just how trhe fook you budget for not getting a pay rise in ten years

You get a better job/more skills/more hours?

cod'ead wrote:

Or how do you budget for divorce or illness etc?

What does that have to do with companies paying/not paying tax?

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:33 am  

Standee wrote:

You get a better job/more skills/more hours?

Yes becausae it really is that simple isn't it?

Standee wrote:

What does that have to do with companies paying/not paying tax?

You brought up the budgeting scenario. We have a welfare state that could be better funded if corporations and individuals paid the tax due without spending mega bucks on an army of lawyers to simply look for loopholes.

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:33 am  

DaveO wrote:

V... no reason why Vodafone's actions could not be viewed as nothing other than a tax avoidance measure and so be open to challenge in the courts.
...

This, except that it's even easier since as I said HMRC could just ignore the scam,raise an appropriate assessment which Vodafone would have to pay, and if they wanted to persuade a court that this wasn't a scam, it would be their right.

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:36 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Yes becausae it really is that simple isn't it?

You brought up the budgeting scenario. We have a welfare state that could be better funded if corporations and individuals paid the tax due without spending mega bucks on an army of lawyers to simply look for loopholes.

More accountants really, from the big 4, who do the rounds of bigwig in tax department, cushy sinecure in a tax giant. You often have the crazy situation where tax accountants that set up taxes advice the government about them, and senior Whitehall tax figures ned up earning big bucks at iether the companies that benefited from the HMRC's largesse while they were in control, or the beancounters who came up with the wheeze. The circular connections are many and very worrying. Private Eye lists some of them every week.

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:48 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Yes becausae it really is that simple isn't it?

No, life isn't simple, you have to work hard to get rewards, not sit on your arris taking handouts!

cod'ead wrote:

You brought up the budgeting scenario. We have a welfare state that could be better funded if corporations and individuals paid the tax due without spending mega bucks on an army of lawyers to simply look for loopholes.

And if fewer people were fleecing the system, it would be better provisioned.

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:11 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Vodafone are avoiding tax by organising their business to do just that. The fact Barlow and Vodafone adopt different ways of doing it is completely irrelevant.

The general consensus is that avoiding tax is wrong. The legal view is if what is done is simply a mechanism to avoid tax it is also illegal. So I so no reason why Vodafone's actions could not be viewed as nothing other than a tax avoidance measure and so be open to challenge in the courts.

The fact you don't see the problem is rather disturbing. The mantra of increasing shareholder wealth is the biggest excuse not to consider all stakeholders particularly a companies employees but especially the tax man.

Except its not an excuse is it. What Vodafone are doing is not only legal, but also acceptable in the eyes of the tax man, UKGAAP, IASB and the companies act 2006. Is it right morally? Probably not, but morality never increased share prices. A company that doesn't consider all stakeholders will not perform very well, generally, but to put the needs of the tax man in front of the needs of its shareholders is suicide!

It's the same for wealthy individuals, who spend 6 months or more out of the country and become non resident, purely to pay their tax at a lower rate in another country. All they are doing are taking advantage of the system and looking after number one.

Why was there no uproar about individuals, creating limited companies, and getting their money out by way of a small weekly wage of , topped up by dividends? that way they pay less tax than they would if they were a sole trader or in a partnership? Whilst its not as lucrative as it once was,they were still exploiting the system, meaning the UK received less tax.

We can argue about this all day long, but at the end of the day, every single person would pay less tax if they had the opportunity to do so. Vodafone are no exception.

Regards

King James

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:16 pm  

Standee wrote:

if fewer people were fleecing the system, it would be better provisioned.

Amen - big companies most definitely included. Not heard it for a while, but we are all still in it together, aren't we?

Re: Mega corporations and tax : Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:45 pm  

Standee wrote:

too many people spend beyond their means, and then blame someone else when the bills come in.

Very true.

No personal responsibility.