Re: False Rape Complaints : Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:20 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

I know where I stand on the Ched Evans case.

Unless and until his conviction is overturned, he is a convicted rapist who, although he may have been released from prison, is still serving the remainder of his sentence on licence. He will have to sign the Sex Offender's Register for life (nature of offence and length of sentence), there will be restrictions on what work he can undertake, possibly barring him from working with anyone under 18. How would that fit with a pro-footballer and the academy?

He should be encouraged to seek another career and for those who say that's a restraint of trade. If Evans had been a schoolteacher, would you be happy with him teaching your daughter after his release?

You are correct, but he surely has the right to earn a living in his chosen trade (unless it has specific restrictions like teaching etc). I listened to a debate on R5 Live the other day and there was a lot of callers whose main objection was the amount of money he earned, rather than being an unsuitable job for a criminal once released. I don't see how him being a footballer, who will actually spend most of his working time in front of a few dozen others when training and 20k when playing will put others at risk any more than if he became a plumber or a welder.

The alternative is to have him do nothing for the rest of his life.

Re: False Rape Complaints : Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:37 pm  

I'm not sure what the public want with regards to Evans getting back into employment. If he doesn't play football again, what job is appropriate for him to do? How much should he be allowed to earn before the public are in outrage? Maybe he should sign on and claim benefits because that would really give the public something to moan about!

Re: False Rape Complaints : Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:05 pm  

rover49 wrote:

You are correct, but he surely has the right to earn a living in his chosen trade (unless it has specific restrictions like teaching etc). I listened to a debate on R5 Live the other day and there was a lot of callers whose main objection was the amount of money he earned, rather than being an unsuitable job for a criminal once released. I don't see how him being a footballer, who will actually spend most of his working time in front of a few dozen others when training and 20k when playing will put others at risk any more than if he became a plumber or a welder.

The alternative is to have him do nothing for the rest of his life.

Call me a cynic but I reckon the only reason that Sheffield have allowed him back into training is because they have an asset that they wish to move on to another club.

Whether he gets back into the game is another matter. But if he does I hope for his mental well-being that he's a strong character. Can you imagine the abuse he will suffer from opposition fans? That's one of the reasons I suggested he find another avenue of employment

Re: False Rape Complaints : Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:13 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Call me a cynic but I reckon the only reason that Sheffield have allowed him back into training is because they have an asset that they wish to move on to another club.

I won't call you a cynic. I'll just call you wrong. He's out of contract so he's a free agent.

Whether he gets back into the game is another matter. But if he does I hope for his mental well-being that he's a strong character. Can you imagine the abuse he will suffer from opposition fans? That's one of the reasons I suggested he find another avenue of employment

BS.

Re: False Rape Complaints : Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:55 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

I won't call you a cynic. I'll just call you wrong. He's out of contract so he's a free agent.

So why's he training with Sheffield if he's a free agent?

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

BS.

Yes because the average soccer supporter is such a balanced individual, they wouldn't stoop to abusing opposition players would they>

The game is rotten to the core. From the corruption at the top levels of FIFA, through the chinless wonders at UEFA and the ineptitude of the blazers at the FA. Right to the neanderthals on the terraces

Re: False Rape Complaints : Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:30 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

So why's he training with Sheffield if he's a free agent?

The players union, the PFA, requested that Sheffield United allow him to train with them as a way of rebuilding his career. Sheffield United have tonight withdrawn their offer.

Now the PFA request and what's happened this last week may have just been PR BS and a way for SUFC to test the water and seeing what the response would be, but the basic fact is that Evans is an out of contract footballer without a club right now.

Re: False Rape Complaints : Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:34 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Guess we'll just have to see what the Criminal Case Review Board have to say, after all he has already been refused the right to appeal

Well yes, as if he'd been given permission to appeal, there's be no point in asking for a case review!

On what I have read of the case, I will take some convincing that there hasn't been a miscarriage of justice here.

As for the employment point, everyone has an opinion, but few (and I'm not referring to posters on here) seem to have thought it through. The difficulty with playing a rapist in a pro sports team shouldn't actually need explaining, it's like taking Todd Carney's case (which has got him excluded from his domestic game) and multiplying it by, oh, I dunno, a billion. And that's when apart from being gross, Carney's brief stunt didn't directly affect any other person nor was it even remotely a crime. It is hard on Evans if as I believe his conviction was wrong but pro team players are held up as idols and role models for kids, by each team, like it or not that's the fact, every club projects itself as a "family friendly" club and an "inclusive" organisation. The players' behaviour is meant to chime with and project the values of the club. If anyone claims they can't see what the issue is with a rapist being cheered, admired and put on a pedestal then I say they are hard of thinking. It is ridiculous to pretend you don't get it. Having a criminal conviction has always effectively barred many people from many jobs and always will. One point is that they knew it would, before choosing to commit whatever crime they did.

Re: False Rape Complaints : Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:47 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Having done some reading of the available materials on Evans' case, I for one do not believe he should have been convicted. He and his mate ended up having sex with the complainant at more or less the same time yet by the jury's decision, she was able to give consent until Evans swapped places, at which instant she suddenly became unable to give consent. So, his mate was acquitted of rape yet Evans was convicted, when there was zero forensic evidence, no complaint of rape (or anything else), and the only accounts of what happened were those of Evans and his mate. Who said she agreed to making it a threesome, and was enthusiastic about what followed. Sordid behaviour by all concerned, but although Evans may have the sexual mores of a ginger tom, that does not make him a rapist.

Agreed. I have read quite a bit about the case, including the sentencing remarks.

It is blatantly an inconsistent / perverse verdict. As in the verdict of the jury did not sit with the evidence. I take the view it was an 'all or nothing case'. I do not see how one of the men involved could be guilty of rape, and the other be not guilty, when the prosecution case was that the women was too drunk to consent to sex with either.

It is also worth nothing that the jury, who were in their 3rd week of jury service, told the Judge on a Friday afternoon that they could not reach a unanimous verdict. Rather than direct the jury could return a majority verdict (10/2), as a judge is entitled to do after 2hrs 10 minutes, the Judge told them to go away and spend further time seeing if they could reach a unanimous verdict. Faced with the prospect of returning on Monday, for what would have been a 4th week's jury service for some, the jury came back shortly thereafter and returned a unanimous guilty verdict.

I fully expect it to be declared unsafe, and thus overturned, once the Court of Appeal gets hold of it. This will raise an interesting question - will public opinion be 'happy' with the idea of Ched Evans going back to playing football?

As for other points raised in this thread, any man can be accused of rape, and there but for the grace of God go any of us.

As I said previously, false accusations happen on a regular basis. Usually it is a women who has had sex that she regrets. She then tries to justify it to herself and others by saying she was raped. Once she walks into the police station and gives the complaint, the ball has started rolling, she has to stick to her story, or face possible prosecution herself.

Again - there is no public appetite to take action against false complainants, because the police and CPS are terrified of the women's lobby who constantly push the line that all men are lovers and everyone with a penis is a rapist. Also, it is feared it would discourage genuine complainants from coming forward.

Re: False Rape Complaints : Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:11 pm  

A question to everyone regarding this topic.
Have any of the people that have expressed their opinions on this subject ever actually had any personal experience of what it is like to be wrongly accused of rape ?

Serious question . Because if you have not , then you really do have no idea what it is like . Oh yes you can have an opinion on what it might feel like . You can try to imagine how your family , friends , employers etc may react . Or take a guess at how people that are only aware of your existence because they saw your name and picture in the local paper might treat you if they meet you in the street .

In my opinion anyone (male or female) that wrongly makes an accusation of rape deserves all they get . It can totally destroy the life of the person who is wrongly accused .
In this case the girl is now dead . Very unfortunate for her . But if such accusations are false then they can result in the accused having to face a future with very little prospect of employment , relationship or inclusion in the social life they used to have . A fate worse than death . At least death is finite .

Name them and shame them , and let them live with the consequences of their actions . If it results in them topping themselves then so be it .

Rant over for now .

Re: False Rape Complaints : Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:19 pm  

p1nkyw1nky1 wrote:

A question to everyone regarding this topic.
Have any of the people that have expressed their opinions on this subject ever actually had any personal experience of what it is like to be wrongly accused of rape ?

Serious question . Because if you have not , then you really do have no idea what it is like . Oh yes you can have an opinion on what it might feel like . You can try to imagine how your family , friends , employers etc may react . Or take a guess at how people that are only aware of your existence because they saw your name and picture in the local paper might treat you if they meet you in the street .

In my opinion anyone (male or female) that wrongly makes an accusation of rape deserves all they get . It can totally destroy the life of the person who is wrongly accused .
In this case the girl is now dead . Very unfortunate for her . But if such accusations are false then they can result in the accused having to face a future with very little prospect of employment , relationship or inclusion in the social life they used to have . A fate worse than death . At least death is finite .

Name them and shame them , and let them live with the consequences of their actions . If it results in them topping themselves then so be it .

Rant over for now .

Here's one for you then:

Ever been raped?

No?

Well it trumps all allegations oif making false rape claims