Re: General Election campaign : Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:18 pm  

bren2k wrote:

There are already strong rumours that she's had a series of 1:1 telephone meetings with Johnson - and I don't think her desire to be back in the big time should be underestimated; as a Minister in the coalition govt, she voted for Tory austerity policies more times than a significant number of actual Tories did - over 800 times in fact. She is a yellow Tory, who represents the maintenance of the status quo, but with 5p carrier bags to ameliorate the conscience.

As for Corbyn being unclear - you trot this out repeatedly, so I can only assume you're listening to the media rather than him; take no deal off the table, extend the deadline, hold a GE, negotiate a softer exit with the EU, put it to the people - including an option to Remain. It couldn't be simpler.

Sorry Bren but, although nobody would wish to see it, I'll show my booty in Wakefield precinct if The Lib dems go into coalition with the Tories.
The previous coalition was long before Brexit and whatever similarities the 2 parties may have had in 2010 have long since disappeared, not to mention the utter damage that jumping into bed with Cameron actually did for their Party.
As for Corbyn. He and the Labour party have spent so long on the fence, that the undergrowth will now prevent them moving at all.
Even with the sequence of events that you describe and assuming that Labour can win an election, which I very much doubt (and certainly not with an overall majority), just how long do you think that the process would take and do you think that the electorate would be happy with soft (remain) Brexit.
Personally, I would have been very happy with that option from the outset but, there was a vote to leave and why should anyone be happy with a second "referendum". If the result were "remain" Farage & Co would no doubt insist on another vote.
You say that Labours stance is "clear" but, what happens if the Tories or worse still, The Brexit party gain power (or a share of it).
Remember, Labour are 12/13 points behind the broken shambles of the Conservatives.
I've said for years that Labour wont win an election with Corbyn at the helm and just like my views on Brexit, nobody has changed my mind on this one.
He is loved by his closest allies but, despised by the majority of the rest.
The best that Labour could hope for is a coalition with the SNP and / or the Libdems and even that is not a certainty

Re: General Election campaign : Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:19 pm  

I can't see the circumstances in which we ever leave.

The EU has us over a barrel, and will "stick" to the deal already negotiated. Why wouldn't they? They don't want us to leave, and must be laughing their male hens off at the ensuing shambles.

I can't see ANY way in which any Parliament would be elected that would have a majority for either a hard Brexit, or for accepting this deal.

I can't see any way in which a second referendum would vote leave, but if I am wrong about that, then I certainly can't see a majority for "leave regardless" - any majority would IMHO certainly only ever be to leave with a deal.

And so to keep us in the EU, all Eu needs to do is refuse to negotiate any further. Leaving us nowhere to go.

What a mess.

Re: General Election campaign : Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:25 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Sorry Bren but, although nobody would wish to see it, I'll show my booty in Wakefield precinct if The Lib dems go into coalition with the Tories.
The previous coalition was long before Brexit and whatever similarities the 2 parties may have had in 2010 have long since disappeared, not to mention the utter damage that jumping into bed with Cameron actually did for their Party.
As for Corbyn. He and the Labour party have spent so long on the fence, that the undergrowth will now prevent them moving at all.
Even with the sequence of events that you describe and assuming that Labour can win an election, which I very much doubt (and certainly not with an overall majority), just how long do you think that the process would take and do you think that the electorate would be happy with soft (remain) Brexit.
Personally, I would have been very happy with that option from the outset but, there was a vote to leave and why should anyone be happy with a second "referendum". If the result were "remain" Farage & Co would no doubt insist on another vote.
You say that Labours stance is "clear" but, what happens if the Tories or worse still, The Brexit party gain power (or a share of it).
Remember, Labour are 12/13 points behind the broken shambles of the Conservatives.
I've said for years that Labour wont win an election with Corbyn at the helm and just like my views on Brexit, nobody has changed my mind on this one.
He is loved by his closest allies but, despised by the majority of the rest.
The best that Labour could hope for is a coalition with the SNP and / or the Libdems and even that is not a certainty

Labours stance is very clear.

Lib Dem’s would only join a coalition with Tory’s, the amount of people who thing lab/lib would ever join in a coalition is laughable.

The sun/mail control the narrative and are superb at it, I agree with you about Labour with Corbyn at the helm. If I was a Brexiteer he’s the only person I’d trust to do it.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:18 am  

Sheldon wrote:

Labours stance is very clear.

Lib Dem’s would only join a coalition with Tory’s, the amount of people who thing lab/lib would ever join in a coalition is laughable.

The sun/mail control the narrative and are superb at it, I agree with you about Labour with Corbyn at the helm. If I was a Brexiteer he’s the only person I’d trust to do it.

You say that Labours stance is very clear, which I believe is Leave with a deal, including "A customs union".
Much as this seems to be the middle ground, do you believe this would make it through Parliament and would it actually be "leaving" (as we would still be tied to the EU and making contributions, albeit at a lower level than we currently do).
Corbyn, although happy to bang the Euro drum about workers rights ets, is a lifelong Eurosceptic and ironically, their own policy doesnt pass it's own 6 tests for leaving the EU ??

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:00 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You say that Labours stance is very clear, which I believe is Leave with a deal, including "A customs union".
Much as this seems to be the middle ground, do you believe this would make it through Parliament and would it actually be "leaving" (as we would still be tied to the EU and making contributions, albeit at a lower level than we currently do).
Corbyn, although happy to bang the Euro drum about workers rights ets, is a lifelong Eurosceptic and ironically, their own policy doesnt pass it's own 6 tests for leaving the EU ??

The big problem is that neither can put one upmanship and politics aside and make a decision that is actually good for THE COUNTRY, it looks increasingly like we will end up with a GE, another coalition that can't really do much and the same ineffective politics we have had for 20 years.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:24 am  

IR80 wrote:

:arrow: The big problem is that neither can put one upmanship and politics aside and make a decision that is actually good for THE COUNTRY, it looks increasingly like we will end up with a GE, another coalition that can't really do much and the same ineffective politics we have had for 20 years.

I would suggest those honourable Tories (oxymoron alert) are doing exactly that. The reason that we are in this pickle is one side sees the obvious economic & social advantages of EU membership, the other side are a bunch of racists & xenophobes who still think the UK is a superior nation.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:57 am  

tigertot wrote:

I would suggest those honourable Tories (oxymoron alert) are doing exactly that. The reason that we are in this pickle is one side sees the obvious economic & social advantages of EU membership, the other side are a bunch of racists & xenophobes who still think the UK is a superior nation.

The referendum result was to leave, it is a simple fact. (I voted remain, but democracy requires that we leave), Labour were clamouring for a GE, they could have one, but know they will never win with the Geography Teacher at the helm.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:11 am  

IR80 wrote:

The referendum result was to leave, it is a simple fact. (I voted remain, but democracy requires that we leave), Labour were clamouring for a GE, they could have one, but know they will never win with the Geography Teacher at the helm.

But you said politicians can't make a decision for the good of the country. Not wanting to commit suicide, I would suggest, could be construed as beneficial.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:18 am  

tigertot wrote:

But you said politicians can't make a decision for the good of the country. Not wanting to commit suicide, I would suggest, could be construed as beneficial.

In your oppinion, not the majority of those that voted. As I say, I voted remain, but my countrymen and women voted leave. If we were to stay then the EU would meddle evn more. I don't see a positive outcome either way.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:43 am  

HOw do they 'meddle' now, and how would they meddle more? That is just typical Mail/Sun/Express language.