Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:05 pm  

EL CAMO wrote:

Recently broke my copy of GTA IV that I never got round to finishing and I fancy dusting it off so I'm going to invest in a new copy.
Anyone know where I could pick one up from for the best deal?

Which platform mate? I have it on 360 that I've not used for years. I'll post it to you for a couple of quid.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:41 am  

Right I've played a hell of a lot of FIFA, the game is good in many ways, but there are some massive flaws that need to be addressed in full or I'm going back to PES.

The goalkeepers are awful, sometimes they make unbelievable saves, sometimes they punch the ball and don't catch the ball in the easiest of positions, awful.

The defenders leave wingers/strikers far too easily and create opportunities that should never have happened, it's so infuriating when this happens because you are powerless to prevent a goal.

The collision system is broken - Players randomly run into each other for no reason, they don't try and get out of each others way, awful.

The referees and fouling system is broken, sometimes you win a ball easily, no problems, but no the referee blows his whistle. Such a bad refereeing system.

Defending needs to be changed, the contain and tackle system needs to be overhauled, its too hard to tackle, attempting to tackle a winger sometimes is infuriating and because of the overpowered pace system it is unfair.

The 'momentum' system is rubbish, whereby a team like Spain's ability is reduced if playing against a poor team, so annoying and unfair.

The amount of bugs (players not picking the ball up for a quick throw / or somtimes running onto the pitch with the ball in their hands for an unlimited amount of time / players receiving 50+ yellow cards / the game crashing in the arena and on loading screens)

There are many more problems, but the one that annoys me the most is the clueless defending, really really annoys me.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:35 am  

What about when a through ball is played, clearly going towards goal, but the computer controls one of your players and tries to intercept it, even though the intercept isn't on. You change to that player to try and control him but it will continue with his run and eventually leave the forward wide open.

For me, the finishing is backward on the game. Last night I done a stupendously good run with Ribery, cut it back to Benzema who was wide open on the penalty spot. I held finesse and aimed towards goal, he tried to bring his 'keeper out at Ribery so the net was wide open yet Benzema placed it just past the post. Benzema is one of the best forwards on the game and he can't score an open goal because of what? I pressed O two tenths of a second too late? Because the computer aimed it for me? Because the game didn't want me to score?

It's clearly a broken game and I've tried configuring the button and auto/manual layouts to try and get some form of consistency but it doesn't happen. It literally defies the point of any game if the computer is going to intervene and turn things against you. The biggest example of this can be seen in any match when you try a through ball, or attempt any sort of pass, really. How many times have you tapped L1 to make an off the ball run, seen the run and held through ball to play him in, only for the ball to go on the other side of the defender for an easy intercept? Or to go to a completely different player altogether, i.e. to the forward instead of the winger, or to the full back instead of the winger. Whether it's auto, manual or whatever, this happens with such regularity it really does defy the point. I played a few games with a mate last night and every game was decided by a single goal, yet every single game was riddled by stupidity on the AI's part.

As I said, Fifa needs a proper competitor that understands the sport. They keep changing how things look, but nothing ever changes how things play on the game. 360 degree dribbling? How does that work when the defender can tackle you when running at about 340 of those degrees? And even the other 20, it's just a matter of him catching up to you, pulling your shirt and outmuscling you, even if your player on the ball is Cristiano Ronaldo, whilst his player is Giovinco.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:42 am  

TFC wrote:

Right I've played a hell of a lot of FIFA, the game is good in many ways, but there are some massive flaws that need to be addressed in full or I'm going back to PES.

Good luck with that, PES is awful.

TFC wrote:

The goalkeepers are awful, sometimes they make unbelievable saves, sometimes they punch the ball and don't catch the ball in the easiest of positions, awful.

Isn't that what real keepers do?

TFC wrote:

Defending needs to be changed, the contain and tackle system needs to be overhauled, its too hard to tackle, attempting to tackle a winger sometimes is infuriating and because of the overpowered pace system it is unfair.

The defending is fine on FIFA 12. They got the balance right and if you are good at it, you can defend well.

TFC wrote:

The amount of bugs (players not picking the ball up for a quick throw / or somtimes running onto the pitch with the ball in their hands for an unlimited amount of time / players receiving 50+ yellow cards / the game crashing in the arena and on loading screens).

What are you playing it on? I can honestly say I've never seen any of this on the Xbox. Graphical glitches are very rare and the only ones I can remember seeing are to do with the collision engine when players fall on each other and spasming together.

TFC wrote:

There are many more problems, but the one that annoys me the most is the clueless defending, really really annoys me.

The biggest problem FIFA has is a chronic lack of competition. Pro Evo has been a joke since the very early PS2 days and there is no other competition. That means EA can think about game modes (Better than Pro Evos) and just make minor changes to the gameplay this time. What is lacking on FIFA most is variety. Players are ALWAYS in the same base position for each scenario, goal kicks, corners, free kicks. So you always know where the players are and can pass the ball so easily to the same old players. For me from a goal kick it's a pass to the right back, central midfielder, right midfielder, one two with the stiker and a cross/pull back. Unless I prevent myself doing it, it's so easy to fall into the same old play. There is no movement, no individuality to the players and no variety to the gameplay.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:41 am  

Oblivious, as ever.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:53 am  

Roddy B wrote:

Oblivious, as ever.

you didn't even read it.

A lot of the points you make about FIFA are valid, but how good a game would it be if the defending was perfect, the keepers perfect, the through balls perfect and the finishing just a case of pressing a button? It'd be impossible to lose? FIFA is far from perfect, but some of the areas you pick up on as being major problems really aren't.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:10 am  

Saddened! wrote:

:lol: you didn't even read it.

A lot of the points you make about FIFA are valid, but how good a game would it be if the defending was perfect, the keepers perfect, the through balls perfect and the finishing just a case of pressing a button? It'd be impossible to lose? FIFA is far from perfect, but some of the areas you pick up on as being major problems really aren't.

No game will ever be perfect, of course, but these problems have been so consistent with Fifa. The problem I have is that it's the game itself that 'decides' the outcome of many situations, not the player. The through balls, as an example: if the defender positions himself well and reads the pass well, he should be rewarded with an interception, but the game shouldn't take it upon itself to gimp the attacker and selectively change the direction of the pass because it feels like it, which is what it actually does. I'm not saying that finishing should be just pressing a button, but twelve yards from goal, effectively open goal, finesse/placed, top 10 striker on the game, yet it goes wide?

The game/AI actively decides the outcome of the game so much, it becomes unplayable. Ask yourself, how many times do you have a shot then see the goalkeeper parry it, only for it to go straight to a defender when you're attacking? Then, when the other player has an effort, his rebound goes straight to his attacker for an open goal. It happens almost every game, it doesn't reward skillful play, it just rewards through broken mechanics and idiocy.

When I used to play PES, if I won, I knew I'd won through skillful play. I had to work for my goals, I had to defend in more ways than jockeying and headless chicken closing down and I had to keep possession quite effectively. When I used to play, I never felt like the AI was hindering me, I never found myself questioning every input because the CPU done something else, and I never found myself so wound up through losing to the most pathetic things. Refereeing decisions, AI defensive errors, missed headers, magical rebounds and indefensible corners.

You turn a blind eye to it and try and say "well that happens in football", it's not just about real life football, it's about balance and a fluid game that's enjoyable. People won't question Fifa because they have nothing to argue against it with, but the old PES games on the PS2 were still better balanced games, even if they are now severely limited.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:20 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

The game/AI actively decides the outcome of the game so much, it becomes unplayable. Ask yourself, how many times do you have a shot then see the goalkeeper parry it, only for it to go straight to a defender when you're attacking?

I don't really go with the conspiracy theory stuff. I think that's more down to the robotic way in which players are positioned in FIFA. Players are ALWAYS in the same position, so the ball will pretty much always fall the same way. Also, flip your point around, if you are playing multiplayer, surely the other player would be having a great time?

I'm not saying this is you, but FIFA gets a lot of criticism from people who aren't very good at it. When you watch the top online players playing each other they play some lovely stuff, very realistic moves and score some great goals. There is a lot of depth to FIFA's gameplay these days, most players don't even scratch the surface of what you can do with the ball. Like me, most of the bad players do the same thing over and over again.

There is lots they could do to improve it. I'd like the pitch to be much bigger, the pace of the game more realistic, the players to be more 'alive' and position themselves in a much more fluid way and the pace and skill of the players to be more pronounced. There really is little difference between Tony Hibbert and Philip Lahm or between Leon Osman and Lionel Messi. They won't ever change it, FIFA is FIFA. They would be mad to as well, it sells by the bucketload and there is no competition to force them to either.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:32 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Good luck with that, PES is awful.

Only in your FIFA 12 biased point of view. I've played PES 2012 all weekend and after 5 minutes of playing, I already found it much better than the overhyped sack of crap that is FIFA 12. And I'm not biased, I own FIFA 10 and FIFA 11 which are okay games, but FIFA 12 is god awful.

Saddened! wrote:

Isn't that what real keepers do?

By your above comment, you seem to state that FIFA is realistic. As I've stated in an earlier post, FIFA is FAR from realistic.

Saddened! wrote:

The defending is fine on FIFA 12. They got the balance right and if you are good at it, you can defend well.

It's easy to defend on FIFA because you have nothing to defend against. Your strikers don't follow the play of the ball and stay in midfield, and any attempt at a through ball is easily sweeped up. Plus the crosses are whipped in at a 90 degree angle so before the defence has time to head the ball away, it's already on the half way line.

Saddened! wrote:

The biggest problem FIFA has is a chronic lack of competition. Pro Evo has been a joke since the very early PS2 days and there is no other competition.

I think you're talking out of your booty to be honest. How early are you talking about here? I've got PES 2008 on PS2 and even THAT is a much better game than FIFA 12. PES was top dog for a few years until FIFA got it's act together slightly, but they've let themselves down with FIFA 12.

Re: PS, Xbox, Wii, PC and other Gaming #10 : Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:40 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

I'm not saying this is you, but FIFA gets a lot of criticism from people who aren't very good at it. When you watch the top online players playing each other they play some lovely stuff, very realistic moves and score some great goals. There is a lot of depth to FIFA's gameplay these days, most players don't even scratch the surface of what you can do with the ball. Like me, most of the bad players do the same thing over and over again.

Any game can have great depth if you take it unbelievably seriously. I don't, I play casually but that shouldn't mean I should accept flaws in the game.

I've watched really good players play and they are superb at skill, I can do skill, not quite on their level or with their consistency, but I can pull it off but that is only one area. I can beat a man with skill but it creates no more than a three/four yard gap, something easily closed down given Fifa's magical shirt pulling and 'odd' on-ball/off-ball speed balance.

With regards to repetition, I play in different ways depending on formation, but most of that stuff is irrelevant when compared to the erratic nature of the game.