Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:38 pm  

Big Graeme wrote:

Learn to quote FFS.

Thanks for that insightful contribution. Must have taken you a while to come up with it.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:41 pm  

BiffasBoys wrote:

A legacy of the last government, of course

A legacy of liberalisation and under regulation of financial markets across the world.

BiffasBoys wrote:

Is it somehow wrong to cut the amount you are spending when you cannot afford it?

Who says we can't afford the spending? Borrowing rates are at about the lowest rate for decades.

BiffasBoys wrote:

Can you give me some examples of this 'austerity'

A 25% reduction in the deficit. Attained by making thousands of police, armed forces personnel, doctors & nurses, admin staff, civil servants etc redundant or not hiring necessary replacements from natural wastage. Leading to reductions in capability of the police, fire service & armed forces. The cancellation/non procurement of armed forces equipment for the future. And of course the understaffing of hospitals, especially A&E departments.

BiffasBoys wrote:

& how any other government would do it differently?

Since 2008:
UK GDP -13%
US GDP +12%

By a fiscal stimulus

BiffasBoys wrote:

Where & how was this growth supposed to come from & over what timescale?

Via a fiscal stimulus to temporarily fill the demand gap.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:44 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Please learn to use the quote function. It isn't difficult, but not using it correctly makes coherent discussion more difficult.

Therefore, at present, I'll respond only to your final point:

I look forward to your comments on the subsidies that the taxpayer makes to the profits of large companies by way of in-work benefits to employees. They don't "need" them. Then again, most companies who get tax breaks don't "need" them either – for fracking, for instance.

My response to you is very simple to follow. Your points are one shade, mine are another. I'll take it that you haven't actually got any responses once your over emotive, cliché ridden musings are challenged?

Give me an example of an in work benefit that isn't needed & requires the government to give companies money.

be careful to note the difference between not taking money & giving it.

What tax breaks do fracking companies get? How does it compare to the feed in tariffs Labour introduced?

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:58 pm  

BiffasBoys wrote:

You yourself have used an example of a family whose kids have grown up & left.

Not me.

BiffasBoys wrote:

All the apparent cases of people having to pay more as a result of a reduction in benefits, owing to excess capacity, aren't claims made by me.

What's your point here and why is it relevant?

El Barbudo wrote:

If demand increases beyond the current spare capacity, rents will rise purely due to supply and demand.

BiffasBoys wrote:

Big ifs. What is the capacity? Why should those who are in social housing & not in receipt of housing benefit not be moved into the private sector? or charged more so that taxpayer subsidy is removed?

Not a big "If" at all.
Nowadays, the greatest problem with housing is that supply is falling short of demand, leading to higher purchase prices and higher rents ... social housing eases this, but only to the extent to which it is allowed.
Also, since Thatcher swept away many tenancy rights in the private sector, social housing is more secure.
And now you want to boot out those who pay their rent themselves.

El Barbudo wrote:

Are you saying there is sufficient spare capacity lying empty to be able to cope?

BiffasBoys wrote:

There are thousands of empty properties all over the country, hundreds of stalled housing developments

And how do you propose to rent them out?
If the owners of the empty private ones wanted to rent them out, wouldn't most of them be rented-out already?

El Barbudo wrote:

You say the cost is less ... how much less?

BiffasBoys wrote:

Build cost is funded by private capital, as are the ongoing costs. Not by taxpayers. Housing benefit is taxpayer funded. You say the cost is more. How much more?

It's the DWP who says it costs more in benefits when the recipients are in the private sector, see earlier post and link.
Adding profit onto the costs must increase the rent, it's very simple.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:07 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

It's the DWP who says it costs more in benefits when the recipients are in the private sector, see earlier post and link.
Adding profit onto the costs must increase the rent, it's very simple.

That and the fact that not all private landlords accept DWP Benefits claimants, in or especially out of work, and especially not now that the Housing Benefit payments are rolled into Universal Benefits and paid directly to the claimant - its only served to make the matter worse (not thought through policy rears its head again).

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:15 pm  

BiffasBoys wrote:

Thanks for that insightful contribution. Must have taken you a while to come up with it.

At least it helped to make the thread readable.

Your modus operandi is to question everything and answer nothing.
Must have taken you a while to come up with that.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:06 pm  

BiffasBoys wrote:

My response to you is very simple to follow. Your points are one shade, mine are another. I'll take it that you haven't actually got any responses once your over emotive, cliché ridden musings are challenged?

Give me an example of an in work benefit that isn't needed & requires the government to give companies money.

be careful to note the difference between not taking money & giving it.

What tax breaks do fracking companies get? How does it compare to the feed in tariffs Labour introduced?

Do you understand what a subsidy is?

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:29 pm  

Him wrote:

A legacy of liberalisation and under regulation of financial markets across the world.

That old chestnut.

Who says we can't afford the spending? Borrowing rates are at about the lowest rate for decades.

No they aren't. Look at the debt/gdp ratio

A 25% reduction in the deficit. Attained by making thousands of police, armed forces personnel, doctors & nurses, admin staff, civil servants etc redundant or not hiring necessary replacements from natural wastage. Leading to reductions in capability of the police, fire service & armed forces. The cancellation/non procurement of armed forces equipment for the future. And of course the understaffing of hospitals, especially A&E departments.

What a load of old tosh. Go away & look at the actual figures on the number of redundancies. There are thousands of public sector vacancies around. reduction in capability or more accurately a reflection of what is needed?

Since 2008:
UK GDP -13%
US GDP +12%

By a fiscal stimulus

There seems to be an obsession by those of a left leaning persuasion to constantly point at the US model. Why is this? It's acase of kicking the debt down the road for someone else to deal with. the US is in rude health is it?

Via a fiscal stimulus to temporarily fill the demand gap.

You mean like cutting VAT to stimulate the economy, when all it did was lose the exchequer billions & produce not a scintilla of growth?

For all those knocking the current situation, what would Labour do differently? Postcards at the ready.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:36 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Not me.

What's your point here and why is it relevant?

Not a big "If" at all.
Nowadays, the greatest problem with housing is that supply is falling short of demand, leading to higher purchase prices and higher rents ... social housing eases this, but only to the extent to which it is allowed.
Also, since Thatcher swept away many tenancy rights in the private sector, social housing is more secure.
And now you want to boot out those who pay their rent themselves.

And how do you propose to rent them out?
If the owners of the empty private ones wanted to rent them out, wouldn't most of them be rented-out already?

It's the DWP who says it costs more in benefits when the recipients are in the private sector, see earlier post and link.
Adding profit onto the costs must increase the rent, it's very simple.

Where is supply falling short of demand? Higher purchase prices & rents? Relative to when? I think you'll find the house price boom is a thing of the past.

Took a while, but she's finally made it into the discourse.

Boot them out? Why should there be social housing apart from the most needy in society? Why should anyone who can afford not to be subsidised by the state be so?

The benefits paid out may be higher, but there's no capital outlay & ongoing capital costs. You seem to be missing this point.

Still no one has said why money circulating between government departments is better than it stimulating the economy. e.g people need homes to rent/buy, developers will build them.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:38 pm  

Him wrote:

Do you understand what a subsidy is?

No answer to the question then?

Do you, it appears not.