Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:54 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Just on Abbott, it isn't just one comment on an election all nighter and whilst her constituants certainly keep on voting her back in, she's doing very well to remain in the shadow cabinet and one suspects that this is due to her loyalty to Mr Corbyn.

I see - it couldn't be because she's any good, obviously?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:17 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I see - it couldn't be because she's any good, obviously?

It could be but, she isn't great when put under pressure on the TV, although just for balance, neither is our Prime Minister

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:43 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It could be but, she isn't great when put under pressure on the TV, although just for balance, neither is our Prime Minister

Lots of politicians flap under pressure - and yet they don't get the torrents of abuse that Diane Abbott does; why do you think that is?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:52 pm  

I must admit to cringing at times when Abbott is on TV as I can sense the bigoted gammon masses frothing at their sets. But then i remind myself she is a black woman, born to immigrant parents who made it to Cambridge & has been elected & re-elected with 2/3 of the vote. Like Corbyn she is principally a local MP who has fought all her political life for her constituents, her beliefs & the less-privileged in society, often to her personal costs. Compare to the Tory cabinet, whose dedication to their local constituents usually extends to riding alongside the local hunt or a garden fete. Is Boris still going to lay down his life for his constituents to oppose the new runway?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:03 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Lots of politicians flap under pressure - and yet they don't get the torrents of abuse that Diane Abbott does; why do you think that is?

Either that she regularly flounders or, we could get into racist/femminist territory but, I dont believe this to be the case here.
Personally, I cringe whenever shes on Question Time or Newsnight and this is purely on how she comes accross.
The mainstream media may have another agenda but, I certainly dont.
She comes accross as someone who's heart is in the right place but that is woefully out of her depth, just my opinion of course.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:09 pm  

bren2k wrote:

There you go again - passing off the bumbling incompetence of *certain* types of politicians, but taking issue with Diane Abbott, because she misspoke some numbers on a live TV interview after an all nighter during the GE.

How about:

Dominic Raab, saying that he hadn't realised how important the Dover-Calais crossing was for trade?
David Davis, saying that a trade deal with the EU would be the easiest in history?
JRM - saying in the HoP that the best response to a close result would a 2nd referendum, then denying it?
Jeremy Hunt - the most hated health secretary in history, accidentally forgetting to declare that he made a fortune from buying houses off a Tory donor?
Boris Johnson - garden bridge, water cannons, arranging to have a journo beaten up, various racist things, etc etc ad infinitum?
Theresa May - there will be no GE; the meaningful vote will go ahead?

The list goes on - but it remains the case that Diane Abbott receives more abuse and targeted attacks than any other MP in the HoC, but it's somehow ok; I wonder why?

Grow some and say what you think - its not difficult.

Let's have a look at few of her other gaffs:
1. Taxi drivers not stop for black customers?
2. She voted to ban MI5 and special branch
3. She said Davao del Norte was in Indonesia when it was in Philippines
4. Spouts Socialist policies yet sent her kids to private school
5. Suggest Reker Ahmed was dead when he was alive and kicking

Corbyn's party speech about a start up in Scotland!!

Labour's list is equally as long as the Tories - these are politicians after all

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:14 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Wow - those uppity black folks - they should learn to just take it on the chin, right?

Wow indeed - positive discrimination is the way forward - those whiteys how dare they point out facts about some black folks - shouldn't be allowed!!

You are unreal

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:01 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I can never understand what it is about Diane Abbott that gets people like you so exercised - particularly when you support a party that includes such dullards as Nadine Dorries, Boris Johnson, Gavin Williamson, Dominic Raab and Michael Gove; all either incompetent, opportunist or just thick as mince, but they never seem to be vilified in quite the same way as Abbott.

I wonder why...?

Is it because she's repeatedly shown herself to be a mumbling, blithering idiot? Because she's repeatedly demonstrated racist views? Because she called on the IRA to defeat the British State? Because she consistently fails to back our police force, preferring instead that they are spat at and often have to undergo weeks of medical tests as a result? Because she was the first to criticise the hugely successful tactic of bringing down motorcycles? Because she has a history of dodgy financial dealings in Parliament (granted, she's not alone), because she's a blatant hypocrite (children's schools). And yes, because the idea that this person is so close to a Cabinet position is genuinely concerning.

I mock her because she's a fool. I detest her for her poisonous views. Got it?

But you think it's because she's black. And people wonder why the loony left are ridiculed.

BTW, I criticise and mock plenty of politicians - and have done on here for years. It says plenty about you can't help yourself but to pick out a black politician for the purposes of implying racism. You and Bullseye. And not for the first time, iirc. Perhaps when one is losing the debate one looks to more sinister accusations.

And it shows you haven't learned. For decades any criticism of immigration was shouted down as racism and xenophobia. That refusal to listen to people's genuine concerns built into a palpable anger and resentment that contributed enormously to the growth of UKIP and ultimately the Brexit vote. Indeed, only when UKIP exploded in popularity did the main parties start to even utter the word immigration. Yet here we still are, the slightest opportunity to seize on someone's colour of skin and the left draw the race card.

On the wider issue - spinning this delay as a bit of statecraft from Mrs May is quite the reach; pulling the vote because you know you're going to lose is somehow ok, whereas voting again on a matter that now has much more detail and clarity, is a betrayal of democracy?

That's precisely what it is. May already knows the EU won't budge - she's been talking to them for months. She's calling the bluff of everyone opposing the proposed deal: if she somehow wins some of the concessions people are calling for (especially on the backstop) she may get the deal through Parliament. If she doesn't it becomes clear that Labour's ridiculous position of 'Corbyn can negotiate a better deal' is a fallacy - so what policy will they choose that week?

Westminster is all statecraft and politicking. The headline 'May seeks concessions' is partly true, but the strategy behind it is more complex. Don't be so naive.

Speak for yourself, I was very clear on the EU and my reasons for voting Leave; they haven't changed.

As for the Labour position - it seems quite clear to me; they can't reverse Brexit for obvious reasons, so they're looking at the wider issues of dealing with poverty, homelessness, NHS and schools, and that requires them to be in power - hence the push for a GE; and to criticise the opposition for wanting to be in power is perverse - that's the whole point isn't it?

At the expense of throwing the country off a cliff edge? Because that's a very real possibility right now and Labour will be the party doing it, simply to increase their chances of an early shot at government. Yes, there are opponents in every party, but Labour has the numbers to make it count.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:54 pm  

Whose the real racist who can’t see past the colour of someones skin? The person who criticises a politician or a person who in attempt to defend them looks at the politician in question physical appearance and determines the criticism MUST be because of their skin colour?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:59 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It could be but, she isn't great when put under pressure on the TV, although just for balance, neither is our Prime Minister

Or Hammond when he made his gaff, around the same time as Abbott, but it’s not like he needs to be trusted with numbers.