Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:16 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

If you haven't already been and had student finance there's nothing to stop you going to university and getting a tuition fee after you have retired.

If your pension doesn't take you over the threshold for repayment you don't have to pay it back.

I'll tell you what, I've never thought of that, what a brilliant idea.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:11 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

I'll tell you what, I've never thought of that, what a brilliant idea.

I can imagine the entrance interview:

"So what would you like to be when you graduate?"

"Continent"

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:39 am  

McLaren_Field wrote:

I'll tell you what, I've never thought of that, what a brilliant idea.

It was picked up in an article in the FT when the new funding system was first out (can't find the link, sorry), by Alasdair Smith, the ex Vice Chancellor of Sussex University.

He wrote a half-joking article pointing out the fact that there would be a large market of people coming to retirement age, that have not yet had student finance and are therefore eligible for it, and that universities could simply target curriculum towards degrees that the older generation would like to do, and the government would be obliged to fund them under a repayment system that would mean in reality they didn't pay anything, or only paid a pittance, back.

It sounds fanciful but some people will do it. You could get say a bloke in his 60s approaching retirement that is a military history enthusiast, tell him he's eligible to get his fees paid by a 'loan' that he won't have to repay and he can go and do a BA in Military History or War Studies and that's the next three years of his life planned out pursuing his hobby....

[Kosh]

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:47 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

If you haven't already been and had student finance there's nothing to stop you going to university and getting a tuition fee after you have retired.

If your pension doesn't take you over the threshold for repayment you don't have to pay it back.

Why not spend your retirement getting ratted at the taxpayers expense at the SU bar and pulling some freshers. You will never end up having to pay it back, unless you live an unusually long time on an unusually high pension.

Superb idea. That's my retirement plan sorted.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:00 am  

Kosh wrote:

Superb idea. That's my retirement plan sorted.

Bloody hell, me too.
Not Military History though, I'm thinking more Plantagenet.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:35 am  

But Asda are going to "create" an extra 5000 jobs and Cameron thinks it's smashing. He's absolutely thrilled that "eligible employees" will be given the opportunity to train for a City & Guilds apprenticeship. Although I'm struggling to see just what benefits, other than a training bung for Asda, there would be gained from such apprenticeship schemes. According to the Fair Pay Network's recent report Face the Difference many of those new jobs will be subsidised by the taxpayer in the form of housing benefits and working tax credits. I thought this lot were trying to reduce the benefits bill?

But Asda are going to "create" an extra 5000 jobs and Cameron thinks it's smashing. He's absolutely thrilled that "eligible employees" will be given the opportunity to train for a City & Guilds apprenticeship. Although I'm struggling to see just what benefits, other than a training bung for Asda, there would be gained from such apprenticeship schemes. According to the Fair Pay Network's recent report Face the Difference many of those new jobs will be subsidised by the taxpayer in the form of housing benefits and working tax credits. I thought this lot were trying to reduce the benefits bill?

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:18 pm  

cod'ead wrote: But Asda are going to "create" an extra 5000 jobs and Cameron thinks it's smashing. He's absolutely thrilled that "eligible employees" will be given the opportunity to train for a City & Guilds apprenticeship. Although I'm struggling to see just what benefits, other than a training bung for Asda, there would be gained from such apprenticeship schemes. According to the Fair Pay Network's recent report Face the Difference many of those new jobs will be subsidised by the taxpayer in the form of housing benefits and working tax credits. I thought this lot were trying to reduce the benefits bill? a) You are quite right to use inverted commas around the word "create". These are not created jobs, they are simply shifted from some other retail area. No-one buys more milk, apples or bread etc just because a new Asda has opened. b) I've been banging on about the iniquity of subsidising supermarkets through benefits and tax credits for quite some time ... what we need is a minimum wage that is more realistic ... it wouldn't completely eliminate the need for tax credits or benefits but would make the employers pay a bit closer to what they should be paying and hence reduce the amount claimed in tax credits etc. The difficult bit is that tax credits and benefits vary according to individual need and you can't really legislate that employers should pay according to need. But you could legislate that the minimum wage should be higher (the stats must be available to set it at the right level) ... then check to see how much the eligibility for tax credits has reduced. It makes economic sense too ... money paid in higher wages will be spent boosting the economy, which is what we need right now ... whereas money saved through low wages will be sucked-up into profits and squirrelled away offshore to avoid tax (all in the name of boosting the share price). Most people on minimum wage (who let's not forget, do most of the actual work in Supermarkets to produce those profits) don't have a huge pension pot and gain very little from increases in share price.

cod'ead wrote: But Asda are going to "create" an extra 5000 jobs and Cameron thinks it's smashing. He's absolutely thrilled that "eligible employees" will be given the opportunity to train for a City & Guilds apprenticeship. Although I'm struggling to see just what benefits, other than a training bung for Asda, there would be gained from such apprenticeship schemes. According to the Fair Pay Network's recent report Face the Difference many of those new jobs will be subsidised by the taxpayer in the form of housing benefits and working tax credits. I thought this lot were trying to reduce the benefits bill? a) You are quite right to use inverted commas around the word "create". These are not created jobs, they are simply shifted from some other retail area. No-one buys more milk, apples or bread etc just because a new Asda has opened. b) I've been banging on about the iniquity of subsidising supermarkets through benefits and tax credits for quite some time ... what we need is a minimum wage that is more realistic ... it wouldn't completely eliminate the need for tax credits or benefits but would make the employers pay a bit closer to what they should be paying and hence reduce the amount claimed in tax credits etc. The difficult bit is that tax credits and benefits vary according to individual need and you can't really legislate that employers should pay according to need. But you could legislate that the minimum wage should be higher (the stats must be available to set it at the right level) ... then check to see how much the eligibility for tax credits has reduced. It makes economic sense too ... money paid in higher wages will be spent boosting the economy, which is what we need right now ... whereas money saved through low wages will be sucked-up into profits and squirrelled away offshore to avoid tax (all in the name of boosting the share price). Most people on minimum wage (who let's not forget, do most of the actual work in Supermarkets to produce those profits) don't have a huge pension pot and gain very little from increases in share price.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:59 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

It was picked up in an article in the FT when the new funding system was first out (can't find the link, sorry), by Alasdair Smith, the ex Vice Chancellor of Sussex University.

He wrote a half-joking article pointing out the fact that there would be a large market of people coming to retirement age, that have not yet had student finance and are therefore eligible for it, and that universities could simply target curriculum towards degrees that the older generation would like to do, and the government would be obliged to fund them under a repayment system that would mean in reality they didn't pay anything, or only paid a pittance, back.

It sounds fanciful but some people will do it. You could get say a bloke in his 60s approaching retirement that is a military history enthusiast, tell him he's eligible to get his fees paid by a 'loan' that he won't have to repay and he can go and do a BA in Military History or War Studies and that's the next three years of his life planned out pursuing his hobby....

Too bloody right I will, my dad would never let me go to Art College because he thought it was full of "bloody weird hippies" and he was right, it was why I wanted to go, so I had to go get a "proper job" instead.

This is brilliant news, beard, sandals, incoherent mumbling and lots of "groovy man" and an end of term show of paintings that no-one understands which way up they hang, all for £9000 a year of unrepayable debt - where do I sign up ?

£27000 of debt at 68 years of age plus the student living allowance, HMRC are going to hate me

[Kosh]

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:24 pm  

cod'ead wrote: But Asda are going to "create" an extra 5000 jobs and Cameron thinks it's smashing. We're getting a new Asda in Worcester. They recently advertised for 300 vacancies and got 3000 applications. I guess the 2700 unsuccessful applicants will all be feckless wastrels set on an easy life on benefits, eh?

cod'ead wrote: But Asda are going to "create" an extra 5000 jobs and Cameron thinks it's smashing. We're getting a new Asda in Worcester. They recently advertised for 300 vacancies and got 3000 applications. I guess the 2700 unsuccessful applicants will all be feckless wastrels set on an easy life on benefits, eh?

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:45 pm  

The one (not insignificant hurdle) that the retirement undergrads will have to go through is that whilst the government will provide you with a fee loan you still need to meet the entry requirements for the course. However if you don't already have suitable qualifications you can probably enrol at a local college and do a one year "Access" course to get that.