Did he not lob the gun as soon as he got out of the taxi?

His arms going up and down as he ran wouldn't have helped his cause.

So I can see why he got shot.

Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Only just looked for this, so don't know how useful... dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/'" Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.

Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Only just looked for this, so don't know how useful... dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/'" Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.

Quote Stand-Offish="Stand-Offish"Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.'" This shows where the casings and radio were. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_pg12.pdf

Quote Stand-Offish="Stand-Offish"Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.'" This shows where the casings and radio were. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_pg12.pdf

From what I've read I don't think anyone really knows how the gun got there.



I don't think it makes any sense for Duggan to throw the gun straight from the car. I think the gun being thrown would be easy to spot, then if the police catching him they'll have the gun and him and he's off to jail.



I think a doctor testified that Duggan couldn't have thrown it after he'd been shot. I know he's a doc and I'm a nobody with no experience in this field whatsoever, but I'd question how he can determine whether someone who has been shot can or can't throw something they desperately wouldn't want to get caught holding.



For the there's the possibility of him being knocked back with the impact of the bullet and releasing it.



But for me the most realistic option is for Duggan to start running as quick as possible while tossing the gun as quickly and discretely as possible.



The best case scenario for the cop would have been the gun still in his possession. The worst case would have been no gun recovered at all. Even if that were the case though, I still feel the officer is justified in shooting if Duggan is starting to do a runner and looks like he's going for a gun.



One piece of information I do want to find is where Duggan's phone was discovered. A witness was quoted as saying she say Duggan with his phone in his hand. If Duggan is right handed and his phone was near his right hand, that would be eyebrow raising for me.

2 police officers get off in america for beating a homeless man to death



Regards



King James

The jury found that the two Fullerton police officers, Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli, had acted in line with their training and their professional right to use force when they beat Kelly Thomas, a homeless man diagnosed as a schizophrenic, during a police altercation on a summer night in 2011.



Only in america. The before and after photos of the poor man they beat to death are shocking.



Regards



King james

The world would definitely be a better place if they just did away with the court process and just allowed twitter or American Idol type phone voting, wouldn't it?

Seems like a sensible decision to test the robustness of the police reaction to incidents and their procedures for using weapons, its also correct that the officer who did the shooting has not been prosecuted because he acted in line with national guidelines but mainly in line with his briefing - if you tell an armed officer that they will be facing a person is is armed or is known to carry firearms then you are putting him on high alert and the safety of everyone, police and bystanders is in his hands, if he fails to act then its his job at risk.

I think that's on page 45 of the police training manual.

Agreed.

Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"This shows where the casings and radio were. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_pg12.pdf'" Sorry that you seem to be doing all my work for me LGJM but how was casing one in the road. The other bits look to be in logical places. Am I wrong in thinking that V53 fired both shots?

Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"This shows where the casings and radio were. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_pg12.pdf'" Sorry that you seem to be doing all my work for me LGJM but how was casing one in the road. The other bits look to be in logical places. Am I wrong in thinking that V53 fired both shots?

I have no idea how the shell casing ended up in the road.



V53 fired both shots. He was the only person to fire his weapon.

About the location of the shell casing. There's a still from the police helicopter that has an ambulance parked up in almost exactly that spot. So it was possibly transferred to there somehow by the paramedic. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_p19G.pdf

About the location of the shell casing. There's a still from the police helicopter that has an ambulance parked up in almost exactly that spot. So it was possibly transferred to there somehow by the paramedic. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_p19G.pdf

Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"About the location of the shell casing. There's a still from the police helicopter that has an ambulance parked up in almost exactly that spot. So it was possibly transferred to there somehow by the paramedic. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/docs/ Jury_Bundle_p19G.pdf'" Thanks for your efforts, it's much appreciated. Don't know about you but I would love to have been involved in the process of actually asking these pertinent questions in court. I think FA would be very good at it.

Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"About the location of the shell casing. There's a still from the police helicopter that has an ambulance parked up in almost exactly that spot. So it was possibly transferred to there somehow by the paramedic. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/docs/ Jury_Bundle_p19G.pdf'" Thanks for your efforts, it's much appreciated. Don't know about you but I would love to have been involved in the process of actually asking these pertinent questions in court. I think FA would be very good at it.

TBH I'm actually glad that I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any part of things like this. I think that the police drown under the paperwork, but IMO the paperwork does exonerate them a great deal.



I get the impression that the police were accused of making up the crossfire just to justify shooting him. But reading the notes it is clear that the cops didn't actually know what had gone down. The cop who did shoot Duggan didn't even know how many times he'd shot and the other cop whose radio got hit didn't seem to have a clue who had hit him.



I have found out that one of Duggan's phones was left inside the cab, along with a phone of the cabbie and the cabbie's PDA. But that still leaves Duggan's second phone, which could be important.



I do call BS on the witness who reckons he saw Duggan holding a phone from 150ft though. 20/20 vision my ar5e.