Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:03 pm  

Dally wrote:

Human child-rearing is a long-term process. 'Marriage' developed in as a formalised structure to enhance the probability of successful child-rearing by creating a socially (and in some cases religiously) witnessed long-term commitment. In that context gay marriage is a meaningless construct. Long-term friendship yes; meaningful marriage no.

So heterosexual couples who choose not to have children, or are unable to have children, cannot have a meaningful marriage?

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:03 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

You are free to change your mind as many times as you want. God knows the final outcome, but he has not predestined so. That is your own choosing.

If God knows the final out come, whats the point?

Unfortunately it's people like you who will bring the end to us all, before Andromeda hits.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:05 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

There is no joy in Hell. I'd think twice before making flippant remarks like that.

Maybe there was just no joy because you were there? How was hell otherwise?

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:06 pm  

Mintball wrote: Then god cannot know the outcome. Thanks – you're a perfect illustration of what fundamentalist religion does to people's brains. Rock God X wrote: Wow. Looks like Minty was right about logic not being your strong point. If God already knows the final outcome of something that has yet to happen, it must be pre-ordained. You can't have it both ways. Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy. Your position was deconstructed centuries ago. For a summary, see this: http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-w ... -free-will

Mintball wrote: Then god cannot know the outcome. Thanks – you're a perfect illustration of what fundamentalist religion does to people's brains. Rock God X wrote: Wow. Looks like Minty was right about logic not being your strong point. If God already knows the final outcome of something that has yet to happen, it must be pre-ordained. You can't have it both ways. Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy. Your position was deconstructed centuries ago. For a summary, see this: http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-w ... -free-will

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:09 pm  

kirkstaller wrote: Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy. Your position was deconstructed centuries ago. For a summary, see this: http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-w ... -free-will God seems to know a lot but tells us very little doesn't he?

kirkstaller wrote: Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy. Your position was deconstructed centuries ago. For a summary, see this: http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-w ... -free-will God seems to know a lot but tells us very little doesn't he?

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:13 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

So heterosexual couples who choose not to have children, or are unable to have children, cannot have a meaningful marriage?

If we take this out of the religious context, as I have tried to, then no. All you anti-religious fanatics love to cite Richard Dawkins. If you read, or re-read, his classic "The Selfish Gene" that should give you an incite into what I refer to as 'meaningful' in this context.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:14 pm  

kirkstaller wrote:

Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy.

I used to have a picture of an RL player in my signature, doesn't mean I can play rugby

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:22 pm  

kirkstaller wrote: Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy. Your position was deconstructed centuries ago. For a summary, see this: http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-w ... -free-will What rubbish. Using their ice cream/cauliflower analogy, how can a parent know for an absolute fact which their child will choose? You could have a pretty good guess, but you can't know the outcome ahead of time. If you knew, 100%, ahead of time, that no set of circumstances could ever cause your child to choose the cauliflower, then it is pre-ordained that the child will eat the ice cream.

kirkstaller wrote: Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy. Your position was deconstructed centuries ago. For a summary, see this: http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-w ... -free-will What rubbish. Using their ice cream/cauliflower analogy, how can a parent know for an absolute fact which their child will choose? You could have a pretty good guess, but you can't know the outcome ahead of time. If you knew, 100%, ahead of time, that no set of circumstances could ever cause your child to choose the cauliflower, then it is pre-ordained that the child will eat the ice cream.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:29 pm  

kirkstaller wrote: Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy. Your position was deconstructed centuries ago. For a summary, see this: http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-w ... -free-will I repeat: your god is a murdering, child-abusing one. And as I mentioned previously, my personal, 'born-again' experience is that your god ignores prayers – ether because he's a torturing nice bloke who likes to see a young person suffer or because he doesn't exist. Make up your own mind. And don't you start pontificating about logic when you link to fundamentalist religious propaganda.

kirkstaller wrote: Mintball, to say you refer to a philosopher in your signature, you demonstrate a remedial knowledge of philosophy. Your position was deconstructed centuries ago. For a summary, see this: http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-w ... -free-will I repeat: your god is a murdering, child-abusing one. And as I mentioned previously, my personal, 'born-again' experience is that your god ignores prayers – ether because he's a torturing nice bloke who likes to see a young person suffer or because he doesn't exist. Make up your own mind. And don't you start pontificating about logic when you link to fundamentalist religious propaganda.

Re: Coalition For Marriage : Thu May 17, 2012 1:30 pm  

Dally wrote:

If we take this out of the religious context, as I have tried to, then no. All you anti-religious fanatics love to cite Richard Dawkins. If you read, or re-read, his classic "The Selfish Gene" that should give you an incite into what I refer to as 'meaningful' in this context.

But we're not talking about what's 'meaningful' in an evolutionary sense. Our concept of what constitutes a meaningful marriage is dictated by our customs and traditions, and has itself evolved as our values have changed (from arranged or 'forced' marriages, to marriages based on mutual love, for example). The time is upon us for further evolution to occur, so that all people can enjoy equal marriages, regardless of their sexuality.