Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:54 am  

tigertot wrote:

At least our leader is chosen by the people.

Should we mention any bloc votes or union influence ?, not to mention sitting on the fence so long that he's got splinters in his piles.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:20 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Should we mention any bloc votes or union influence ?, not to mention sitting on the fence so long that he's got splinters in his piles.

You are unusually myopic on the Corbyn position on this WC; he's playing a blinder here, sitting back and letting the Tories destroy themselves, whilst still focussing on the big issues that the man in the street cares most about - despite the political obsession about Brexit - i.e poverty, the inequities of UC, wealth inequality, the NHS etc etc.

I'm not sure what you want him to do - but he's just been proven right in his decision to delay calling a no confidence vote - because he knew the more swivel-eyed faction of the Tory party were about to do it for him; timing is everything.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:57 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Should we mention any bloc votes or union influence ?, not to mention sitting on the fence so long that he's got splinters in his piles.

My comment was aimed at the xenophobic Brexiteers who criticse Juncker for being unelected & irremovable. Both of which are bololx. Whereas our own dear PM is not elected by the people.

As regards Corbyn, you mistake me for a Labour party member. I belong to a different political party. Having said that, I find it hard to criticise Corbyn for his current approach. The Tories created this shoite storm, not him. Where I think Corbyn is torn, is that, like Tony Benn, he believes passionately about democracy, down to the local level. And he finds that is at odds with a European organisation. What I believe, & my party believes, is that we should be fighting for local decision making on issues such as education, health, social services, local energy, local transport; while the bigger issues such as environment, workers' rights, food quality/production, major transport need large scale approach. One of the biggest things that infuriates me about Brexiteers is that they are happy to hand all decision making to a elite bunch of London-centric, in-bred, hate-filled, Eton Oxbridge 'elite' who don't have the slightest clue or care for the mass of the population.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:04 am  

bren2k wrote:

he's playing a blinder here, sitting back and letting the Tories destroy themselves

I keep reading the ramblings of the liberal lunatic fringe over at The Guardian and I really don't know what they expect Corbyn to do, other than sit back and watch the Tories burn. While ever he's in opposition, Brexit isn't his problem to solve. He could change his stance on the matter every day if he wanted, there's nothing he can effectively do about it.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:52 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

I keep reading the ramblings of the liberal lunatic fringe over at The Guardian and I really don't know what they expect Corbyn to do, other than sit back and watch the Tories burn. While ever he's in opposition, Brexit isn't his problem to solve. He could change his stance on the matter every day if he wanted, there's nothing he can effectively do about it.

Their obsession is with a People's Vote - which I can empathise with to some extent - but they seem to have created the idea that it's within Corbyn's gift to just snap his fingers and make it happen; which it clearly isn't. And even it were - I'm not sure what it solves - half the electorate will still be pi$$ed off - just the other half.

The vote we need now is a GE - if Labour can get into office, which I think they would in a GE, then some of the things that people seem to think Corbyn should do now in opposition, he will actually be able to do; starting with reversing the crippling austerity years and tackling pressing issues like homelessness, child poverty and the slow death of the health and social care systems.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:32 pm  

The only People's vote that is defensible is:

1. May's 'deal'?
2. Just get out.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:37 pm  

Dally wrote:

The only People's vote that is defensible is:

1. May's 'deal'?
2. Just get out.

I see your point. Although I rather doubt the more eager Brexiters would cling to this principled argument if the vote had gone the other way. Didn’t Farage say something to that effect when he thought leave had narrowly lost?

But what we must never, ever forget is that allowing people to vote for a unicorn that poops mars bars does not make providing them with a unicorn that poops mars bars feasible. It’s democracy not demomancy. And when people get a donkey with a carrot stuck on its bonce that poops donkey dung, we get stuck in a mess like this.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:52 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

I see your point. Although I rather doubt the more eager Brexiters would cling to this principled argument if the vote had gone the other way. Didn’t Farage say something to that effect when he thought leave had narrowly lost?

But what we must never, ever forget is that allowing people to vote for a unicorn that poops mars bars does not make providing them with a unicorn that poops mars bars feasible. It’s democracy not demomancy. And when people get a donkey with a carrot stuck on its bonce that poops donkey dung, we get stuck in a mess like this.

Lucid.

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:00 pm  

Dally wrote:

The only People's vote that is defensible is:

1. May's 'deal'?
2. Just get out.

Which did people vote for?

Re: Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) : Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:38 pm  

bren2k wrote:

You are unusually myopic on the Corbyn position on this WC; he's playing a blinder here, sitting back and letting the Tories destroy themselves, whilst still focussing on the big issues that the man in the street cares most about - despite the political obsession about Brexit - i.e poverty, the inequities of UC, wealth inequality, the NHS etc etc.

I'm not sure what you want him to do - but he's just been proven right in his decision to delay calling a no confidence vote - because he knew the more swivel-eyed faction of the Tory party were about to do it for him; timing is everything.

Bren, I think that Corbyn has been increddibly slow to reveal his actual position on Brexit.

I certainly dont remember him "selling" a remain position duriing the referendum campaign and he was happy to leave it to dumb and dumber (Cameron and Osborne) to sell the remain option, which failed horribly.

Therefore he is culpable for allowing us to end up where we are.

Yes, he is of course, more than happy to sit back and watch the Tories implode and it has to be said, this is something that they are doing rather well, but, Corbyn should have been far more pro-active.

He too is also being less than honest with the electorate, in pretending that Labour (should they get the opportunity) would negotiate some kind of magical deal which honestly, appears to be dreamland stuff.

It was bad enough having Farage & Co lying and misleading the public so badly but, Mr Corbyn, has his focus firmly fixed on becoming prime minister and right now, this is to the detriment of ANY Brexit deal