Re: The General Election Thread : Wed May 06, 2015 7:56 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

Well no, not if Labour are happy to be kicked out at the next election.

LOL

The SNP would no more "pull Labour's strings" than the LimpDems have pulled the tories over the last five years.

We're looking at the very last of two-party politics. I reckon that if Labour do form the next government and in the absence of a very unlikely landslide, then consensus politics will be the way forward. To that end, we'll also be offered over the next five years, a proposal for some form of PR and reformation of the HoL. This may disappoint many left-wingers but would strike fear into the hearts of the tories, simply because they truly believe they were "born to rule".

We're heading for a federalist United Kingdom and that is the only way to keep the UK together

Re: The General Election Thread : Wed May 06, 2015 8:08 pm  

Dally wrote:

We should have two mew laws:
- UK residential property owned by non-EU citizens should be subject to an annual tax on value;

That's getting to sound suspiciously like the LVT that I've been promoting for years. People can move, land cannot

Dally wrote:

and

- no newspapers / media outlets only to be controlled / owned by UK domiciled and resident individuals / companies.

Care to read and rewrite that again? It makes no sense at all

Re: The General Election Thread : Wed May 06, 2015 8:59 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

LOL

The SNP would no more "pull Labour's strings" than the LimpDems have pulled the tories over the last five years.

We're looking at the very last of two-party politics. I reckon that if Labour do form the next government and in the absence of a very unlikely landslide, then consensus politics will be the way forward. To that end, we'll also be offered over the next five years, a proposal for some form of PR and reformation of the HoL. This may disappoint many left-wingers but would strike fear into the hearts of the tories, simply because they truly believe they were "born to rule".

We're heading for a federalist United Kingdom and that is the only way to keep the UK together

What's the consensus between Labour and the SNP on Trident? Move it to Manchester?

[DaveO]

Re: The General Election Thread : Wed May 06, 2015 10:12 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

I dont think that Labour will turn to the SNP as such. I think they will present their Queen's Speech and budget and dare the SNP to vote against it or abstain. The trouble is that Sturgeon seems to think that if the SNP vote down a Labour budget, Labour will simply come back with something more acceptable. Because that's how it works in Scotland.

The SNP have put themselves forward as an anti-Tory party as much as a nationalist party in this election (and in the referendum). What people may have forgotten is there are elections for the Scottish parliament in 2016.

Now you can't really appeal to disaffected Labour voters, then vote down a Labour government that then results in a Tory administration and expect to retain that support.

They would be just like the Lib Dems. Went to the country on one platform, anti-Tory, and enabled the thing they said they were against.

They have little choice but to back Labour, deal or no deal.

[DaveO]

Re: The General Election Thread : Wed May 06, 2015 10:15 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

What's the consensus between Labour and the SNP on Trident? Move it to Manchester?

There doesn't need to be one. SNP can vote against. Labour and Tories vote for. Trident is renewed. It's obvious.

If the SNP made this a red line issue (which they have already said they won't....) then for reasons outlined in my previous post they won't be thanked for bringing a Labour govt. down if it lets the Tories in.

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu May 07, 2015 5:05 am  

Cibaman wrote:

What's the consensus between Labour and the SNP on Trident? Move it to Manchester?

Do you believe that if a Queen's Speech is defeated, then that means the end of the government?

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu May 07, 2015 6:06 am  

DaveO wrote:

The SNP have put themselves forward as an anti-Tory party as much as a nationalist party in this election (and in the referendum). What people may have forgotten is there are elections for the Scottish parliament in 2016.

Now you can't really appeal to disaffected Labour voters, then vote down a Labour government that then results in a Tory administration and expect to retain that support.

They would be just like the Lib Dems. Went to the country on one platform, anti-Tory, and enabled the thing they said they were against.

They have little choice but to back Labour, deal or no deal.

If the SNP votes down a Labour government, does it necessarily mean that there will be a Tory government? If The Tories can form a government they will do, the Labour / SNP relationship becomes irrelevant. If the Tories can't form a government then they can't form a government.

The most likely scenario, if the polls are correct, is that Cameron will follow the precedents set by Heath and Brown and hang about in Downing Street, trying to form a government. Eventually he will fail and resign. Milliband then becomes PM.

If the SNP votes down the Labour government, it doesn't let the Tories in. Because they can't form a government.

Eventually, if neither Labour or the Tories can form a government, there would have to be a second election. Labour and the Tories would have to agree to support a motion for an early election. The SNP wouldnt have let in the Tories. They would fight that election on the basis that it been caused by the Westminster parties blatant disregard of the voice of Scotland. Another step towards a second referendum.

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu May 07, 2015 7:43 am  

The big day has arrived.
Don't think I've ever been as uninterested in a GE campaigh as this one.
In fact I've gone as far as to purposefully avoid it as much as has been possible...
Just looked this morning online at the six candidates in my constituencey.
The usual three jokers from the main parties who have convinced the great British public that austerity is their fault.
The Little Englander UKIPer (village greens, church bells and no swarthy types hiding behind the cemetary headstones).
Greens (go on, you know it'll make you feel all cuddlier inside).
Yorkshire First (who I couldn't be arsed to read about but assume he's a miniature version of a UKIPer).

I doubt I'll be rushing to my designated polling station anytime soon.

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu May 07, 2015 10:55 am  

Brenda may be appointing a new govt soon, but not much changes, I was delighted to read that I am paying for police officers to leaflet the village where William and Kate live warning everyone off harassing by photography. A heartwarming use of public money and police time I think, but would have been good if they could have dropped off a menu from the local Indian at the same time for free. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-32609527

Brenda may be appointing a new govt soon, but not much changes, I was delighted to read that I am paying for police officers to leaflet the village where William and Kate live warning everyone off harassing by photography. A heartwarming use of public money and police time I think, but would have been good if they could have dropped off a menu from the local Indian at the same time for free. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-32609527

[DaveO]

Re: The General Election Thread : Thu May 07, 2015 12:09 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

If the SNP votes down a Labour government, does it necessarily mean that there will be a Tory government? If The Tories can form a government they will do, the Labour / SNP relationship becomes irrelevant. If the Tories can't form a government then they can't form a government.

The most likely scenario, if the polls are correct, is that Cameron will follow the precedents set by Heath and Brown and hang about in Downing Street, trying to form a government. Eventually he will fail and resign. Milliband then becomes PM.

If the SNP votes down the Labour government, it doesn't let the Tories in. Because they can't form a government.

Eventually, if neither Labour or the Tories can form a government, there would have to be a second election. Labour and the Tories would have to agree to support a motion for an early election. The SNP wouldnt have let in the Tories. They would fight that election on the basis that it been caused by the Westminster parties blatant disregard of the voice of Scotland. Another step towards a second referendum.

It's not just about voting Labour down but offering to support a Tory govt. One of the things I have seen suggested elsewhere is the SNP do a deal with the Tories who deliver devomax to the SNP in exchange for support in passing William Hague's "EVEL" legislation. The logic being devmax is what they always wanted and the Tories have long since given up on Scotland or the concept of the United Kingdom and just want to "rule" England.

I think it is a bit fanciful to say the least and if they did then I reckon the SNP would revive other parties fortunes north of the border as quickly as support for Labour dropped away after the referendum and with 2016 looming they won't do it.

As to the simpler situation of a Labour Queens speech being rejected the SNP would possibly have to vote against to ensure it was, not just abstain. Another election occurs and if the Tories won outright then I am sure Labour and others would argue a vote for the SNP was a vote for the Tories as they suggest voting for the Lib Dem's is.