Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:24 pm  

IR80 wrote:

Yes, currently, the Government (you know, the people elected by the to runthe country) have fiscal measures in place to deal with a very unusual set of circumstances., they had to embark on a period of austerity ro redress theprofligate spending of the previous Labour government, who'sparting message was "no money left, sorry about that".

Answer me this... When will the Global Financial Crisis, Labour circa 2008, and Coronavirus no longer be the fall guys? At what point do the Tories say "this is a problem of our own making" with regards to any future crises in Britain? For a party who preach 'personal repsonsibility', they're bloody terrible at accepting any themselves. Why is it always someone else's fault?

I see the right wing rags are already lining up China as the new 'enemy of the people', and Michel Barnier has been targetted as the UK government's 'patient zero'.

[Durham Giant]

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:29 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

SARS - killed 774 people
H1N1 - was a variant of normal flu - death count very low
MERS - Death toll minimal

No of the above come close to death toll that Covid 19 will deliver - so yes it is a once in a generation virus and the fact that originated from another animal is also a diffentiating factor. The other cases you identified are just variants that we get every year. Normal flu kills c10,000 a year every year so 774 SARS is hardly remarkable.

Countries that look to have coped well are smaller and have used differing strategies - Korea has tested a lot as have Germany - this seems like a good strategy. Italy and Spain have been in lockdown for weeks doesn't appear to be working at the moment?

I would accept your point about lack of investment but where do you stop - once you get the NHS as efficient as it can be and its customers treat it with the respect it deserves then might be a good time to invest. Whilst ever it is 10-20% inefficient 10-20% of your investment is wasted.

You can blame the government for everything but sometimes we have to take responsibility for our own actions - if we decide to by a house in Hebden Bridge we know there is a chance of flooding - the government cannot provide arrangements for every single eventuality its impossible. Perhaps if we drove with more care there wouldn't be as many accidents and the investment in the fire brigade would be sufficient. Perhaps if we didn't take illegal drugs and overdose or get drunk and fight then A&E would be able to focus on people who really do need specialist care etc.

The whole point about mers etc was that drs scientists etc we re very clear that anyone of those viruses could mutate and be much more serious. That is why the 2016 nhs test was based on one of those viruses but with the level of infection and death rate of covid. It was not a case of IF there would be an outbreak but WHEN . The NHS failed that test spectacularly. The government were warned of this and DiD nothing to prepare any contingency plans.

As for the issue if floods. The Government sets standards and guidelines on building. By allowing the building in flood areas they are saying to builders it is Ok to keep building there. Big builders see that as a green light to continue. Then when they flood the government has to then spend a fortune with taxpayers money to increase flood defences.

You me and the rest of the taxpayers are paying a blank cheque in terms of flood defences so builders can make profits.

The government has the ability to control that but is choosing not too. Is it because many building companies fund the Tory party ?

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:31 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

The whole point about mers etc was that drs scientists etc we re very clear that anyone of those viruses could mutate and be much more serious. That is why the 2016 nhs test was based on one of those viruses but with the level of infection and death rate of covid. It was not a case of IF there would be an outbreak but WHEN . The NHS failed that test spectacularly. The government were warned of this and DiD nothing to prepare any contingency plans.

As for the issue if floods. The Government sets standards and guidelines on building. By allowing the building in flood areas they are saying to builders it is Ok to keep building there. Big builders see that as a green light to continue. Then when they flood the government has to then spend a fortune with taxpayers money to increase flood defences.

You me and the rest of the taxpayers are paying a blank cheque in terms of flood defences so builders can make profits.

The government has the ability to control that but is choosing not too. Is it because many building companies fund the Tory party ?

As I mentioned before if the NHS took measure to ensure it was ready for every eventuality you would need to dump the whole GDP of the UK into the NHS every year. Its a judgement call about how you use resources - sometimes you win sometimes you don't. Hindsight is a great thing. The outbreak could have been another SARS with very limited impact.

So if the construction businesses cannot get planning permission then the risk of flooding is negated to zero - so whilst council a big chunk of which will be Labour allow building in flood plains then you can hardly blame the builders from doing just that. Then you have the consumers who buy these houses - surely they also have a responsibility for their actions too? In your eyes only the builders are to blame - big business its all their fault - easy to blame them!!

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:27 pm  

IR80 wrote:

This will be the last time I respond to you, you are clearly a waste of time and effort and cannot see beyond the myopia of your ideals.

Yes, currently, the Government (you know, the people elected by the to runthe country) have fiscal measures in place to deal with a very unusual set of circumstances., they had to embark on a period of austerity ro redress theprofligate spending of the previous Labour government, who'sparting message was "no money left, sorry about that".

Stay safe.

So when the incumbents do it, it's appropriate "fiscal measures," but when your fantasy Labour government do it - it's a magic money tree?

As for the GLOBAL financial crash of 2008 - you know, as does everyone else, that Labour had similar "fiscal measures" to take when that "very unusual set of circumstances" landed; and Alistair Darling is widely recognised as having done a pretty decent of job of getting the big international banks round the table and forcing them to accept measures to mitigate the damage.

You knew all that though - you just insist on behaving like an idiot.

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:50 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

You are delusional - you clearly have little to zero knowledge of self-employment - it would be funny if it were so sad - have you thought about self isolation in an appropriate institution?

But you are correct about British innovation

Who else would come up with receipt swopping as a practical ruse to dodge taxes, where they band together to swop receipts around to each other.

You do make me laugh tho, I been in amongst it for 40 years, I can name names, what’s your experience of it?

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:59 pm  

IR80 wrote: Superblue can get comrades from all other countries with lockdown to start a class action. Billy Connolly in lead role again ? Good idea , How long till Comrade Suni calls the public sector out on strike then “Volkswagen emissions scandal: class action begins in UK This article is more than 3 months old Class action will focus on whether software fitted to 1.2 million vehicles was designed to defeat clean air laws” https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... gins-in-uk So easy

IR80 wrote: Superblue can get comrades from all other countries with lockdown to start a class action. Billy Connolly in lead role again ? Good idea , How long till Comrade Suni calls the public sector out on strike then “Volkswagen emissions scandal: class action begins in UK This article is more than 3 months old Class action will focus on whether software fitted to 1.2 million vehicles was designed to defeat clean air laws” https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... gins-in-uk So easy

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:43 pm  

Superblue wrote: Good idea , How long till Comrade Suni calls the public sector out on strike then “Volkswagen emissions scandal: class action begins in UK This article is more than 3 months old Class action will focus on whether software fitted to 1.2 million vehicles was designed to defeat clean air laws” https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... gins-in-uk So easy Not like The Grundian to get it wrong, is it.... Group litigation.... maybe? so easy....!

Superblue wrote: Good idea , How long till Comrade Suni calls the public sector out on strike then “Volkswagen emissions scandal: class action begins in UK This article is more than 3 months old Class action will focus on whether software fitted to 1.2 million vehicles was designed to defeat clean air laws” https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... gins-in-uk So easy Not like The Grundian to get it wrong, is it.... Group litigation.... maybe? so easy....!

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:47 am  

bren2k wrote:

So when the incumbents do it, it's appropriate "fiscal measures," but when your fantasy Labour government do it - it's a magic money tree?

As for the GLOBAL financial crash of 2008 - you know, as does everyone else, that Labour had similar "fiscal measures" to take when that "very unusual set of circumstances" landed; and Alistair Darling is widely recognised as having done a pretty decent of job of getting the big international banks round the table and forcing them to accept measures to mitigate the damage.

You knew all that though - you just insist on behaving like an idiot.

I completely agree about the way Labour handled the banking crisis - the fall out had to happen at some point. Fortunately for Labour they had gone when the day of reckoning occurred. What I find puzzling is what you expected the coalition to do - carry a huge debt burden indefinitely?

The only good thing about what has happened is that Labour didn't get into power - we would have debt on a scale never seen before. They would have taken this virus scare as an opportunity to re-nationalise as much as possible plus all the other stuff they wanted to do - it would have been eye-watering and it would have had to be paid back at some point and the only realistic way would have been through increased taxation.

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:55 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The only good thing about what has happened is that Labour didn't get into power - we would have debt on a scale never seen before. They would have taken this virus scare as an opportunity to re-nationalise as much as possible plus all the other stuff they wanted to do - it would have been eye-watering and it would have had to be paid back at some point and the only realistic way would have been through increased taxation.

Again though - you are describing exactly what the current Govt *are* doing, through the lens of what some scary, dystopic, fantasy Labour Govt *might* do; and I can assure you that private business and the self-employed will, without any shadow of a doubt, see increased taxation to foot the bill for the hard-left socialist interventions of Rishi Sunak. For the next five years at least, the Tories have a baked-in excuse to replace the 'last Labour Government' lie they've been telling about austerity for the previous ten years.

Re: coronavirus and sport ? : Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:02 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I completely agree about the way Labour handled the banking crisis - the fall out had to happen at some point. Fortunately for Labour they had gone when the day of reckoning occurred. What I find puzzling is what you expected the coalition to do - carry a huge debt burden indefinitely?

The only good thing about what has happened is that Labour didn't get into power - we would have debt on a scale never seen before. They would have taken this virus scare as an opportunity to re-nationalise as much as possible plus all the other stuff they wanted to do - it would have been eye-watering and it would have had to be paid back at some point and the only realistic way would have been through increased taxation.

Interesting that you mention "carry a huge debt burden indefinitely? "

The current situation is going to make the crash of 2007 look like a blip, he £billions being used by world governments to try and sure up their economies is just mind boggling.
I wonder whether the front line NHS staff will have their wages frozen or cut, as a reward for literally putting their lives on the line.

Pritti Patel though she was being magnanimous in suggesting that those from outside the UK who are part of the effort to save lives can "stay another 12 months" for being part of the "war" effort.
Those people should, if they want it, be given British citizenship.
The numbers, in the scale of things are miniscule and if anyone has earned the right to live in the UK, those people most certainly have.

It's lucky for her that the opposition is ineffective and that there are more important things for us all to worry about - she's a bloody disgrace to the office that she holds.