Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:54 pm  

Telemetry technology is reasonably mature now and could be employed to monitor/police many driver functions and behaviour. In-car breathalysers have been used in some US states for many years in an attempt to mitigate re-offending among convicted drunk drivers. We also have the technology to remotely control most vehicles' maximum speed too. OK there are quite a number of vehicles that are not suitable but the vast majority on the road now are capable of such controls. It would however be a brave national government that introduces them but they could always hide behind "faceless Brussels beaurocrats"

Telemetry technology is reasonably mature now and could be employed to monitor/police many driver functions and behaviour. In-car breathalysers have been used in some US states for many years in an attempt to mitigate re-offending among convicted drunk drivers. We also have the technology to remotely control most vehicles' maximum speed too. OK there are quite a number of vehicles that are not suitable but the vast majority on the road now are capable of such controls. It would however be a brave national government that introduces them but they could always hide behind "faceless Brussels beaurocrats"

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:17 pm  

Him wrote:

Yeah if someone has been convicted of a certain degree of "bad driving" then I'd be all for some sort of monitoring system placed in their cars. However the problem is you're often dealing with pillocks who don't care and would possibly just drive while banned anyway and so wouldn't accept the system.

But this is not remotely a reason for not doing it. The fact some would try to ignore/evade it needs to be dealt with by workable methods of enforcement, detection and punishment.

Him wrote:

It might work in some cases though, but I would only be supportive of it for people convicted, not a blanket measure for new/young drivers, which I think is what the insurance companies want.

But the insurers do not HAVE to insure anybody. As of now, if you don't want to have a "tracker" and pay cheaper premiums, young people can feel free to pay the full monty several grand. Again, the problem of young driver premiums is not going to go away, insurance companies may be lying, cheating, devious moneygrabbers equivalent to bankers, but I wouldn't insure a young male at any cost, when one tearaway ride might leave me with a bill of millions, competitive premiums WOULD be available if the risk profiles were not so bad.

having said which, the one thing that would certainly halve premiums overnight would be finding some way to keep uninsured drivers as near as possible 100% off the road.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:23 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

I'm going off what i see in London, i saw an instructor tell is pupil not to let a car in that was trying to squeeze in a lane in crawling traffic he made this girl (i know i was next to it in the 3rd lane) drive right up the backside of the car in front so he couldn't get in, shocking.

So you are judging the standard of all instructors by the actions of this one.

Horatio Yed wrote:

My main gripe is when i took my PCV i couldn 't believe what i was learning that i hadn't been taught at entry level car learning, i then took my bus instructors corse and was further enlightened. Yourself being an instructor must realise that drivers need more tuition and more education than they currently get, how many pupils have you had start their first lesson in spring and pass before winter thus never experiencing winter weather in a learning situation? I think skid pan driving should also be a given.

I fully agree with you in that more could be done.
I have had a driving test cancelled this morning due to snow. Yet i teach in snow when we have it.
I also teach in fog. You will not take a driving test in the fog as it would be cancelled.

You make it sound so easy. How can i teach a pupil how to drive in snow/fog if we dont get it during lessons.
Now if we leave that for after test. How many people would pay extra to take lessons?
I can tell you not many.
I offer motorway lessons and the take up is very low.

Horatio Yed wrote:

Although i gave one example of bad driving instructing and i've seen a few more, it wasn't you guys i was actually targeting, more the directives you're given. The people who set the standards and directives need to change for you to follow them. With more people learning to drive and being on the roads it's important the standard should rise.

There are lots of plans being talked about to improve driver training.
The trouble is its always talk and no action.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:29 pm  

Big Graeme wrote:

You teach to a standard, that standard isn't high enough.
The complete lack of compulsory motorway experience either pre or post test is frankly lethal.

The thing is Graeme i teach to a higher standard than the test.
A hell of a lot of hard working driving instructors do the same.

I wish i could get learners onto motorways. I live fairly close to a few and could do it in a two hour lesson.
The trouble is what about people who live far away from motorways. How could they learn. There is talk of allowing a driving instructor to take a learner on a motorway. This would only be a instructor.

Just out of interest Graeme, what do think needs to be done?

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:35 pm  

Him wrote:

I think Yed is right in that driving different conditions should be tested or at least taught by the instructor. My birthday is in May and so I started my driving lessons in may and was passed by the end of October and so obviously had no experience of driving in snow or ice until after I'd passed my test. Also, as I live in York that is very flat I had no experience of driving up or down steep hills or hill-starts.

What would happen if we don't get snow in your parts for, lets say two years. Would you be happy to pay for extra training in the snow two years after passing your test?

Him wrote:

There isn't that much that a driving test/lessons can do about the arrogant pillocks that drive far too fast/cut people up/overtake where they shouldn't etc as that's generally an attitude that is inherent to that person.

Now we are seeing the bigger picture.

Him wrote:

But I think the driving lessons and tests could help educate people a lot more than it currently does.

So i take it you and the rest of the general public would be happy to pay more?

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:37 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

Totally agree. I'm not the best driver in the world, but the lack of awareness of how to drive on a motorway(I DID have a motorway lesson) is astonishing and frankly, frightening.

Your right it is.
Maybe everyone who has not had motorway lessons should be made to have one.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:49 pm  

I started telling my pupils who had passed there driving test. To have a look at the co-op insurance scheme.
They fit a black box type device. It measures acceleration, braking and cornering forces.
It then rates each journey undertaken. Scores each drive 1 to 5. You can check on-line to see what your score is.
If you drive well you get lower insurance the next year.

Not one and i mean not one have taken it out.
The reason its very expensive and they can get it cheaper elsewhere.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:02 pm  

Aren't there places where they can recreate certain driving conditions to test how the cars themselves react to different conditions?
I understand it's not easy but I do think many accidents happen because people don't know what to do in the event of a skid on ice for example or how to approach a small hill in the snow.

I'm happy to pay more because I think something as important and potentially dangerous as driving should be more stringently tested and learners given more instruction than is currently happening. It costs more to become a qualified rugby league coach for only 3 years than it currently does for a driving test to licence you for life.
This is not a criticism of driving instructors, just that I think there should be more teaching given to learners before theyre allowed to drive on their own.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:10 pm  

Him wrote:

Aren't there places where they can recreate certain driving conditions to test how the cars themselves react to different conditions?
I understand it's not easy but I do think many accidents happen because people don't know what to do in the event of a skid on ice for example or how to approach a small hill in the snow.

Yes there are. You can do it on a skid pan.
This is something i looked into. I was going to take 4 pupils who had passed.
The only trouble is the cost. I could not get a better price than £130 each at the time.
I wasn't going to charge anything. Just cover my fuel.
Not one person would take it up as it was to dear.

Him wrote:

I'm happy to pay more because I think something as important and potentially dangerous as driving should be more stringently tested and learners given more instruction than is currently happening. It costs more to become a qualified rugby league coach for only 3 years than it currently does for a driving test to licence you for life.

I have had parents, ask me to give there kids, more lessons than i said they needed. The reason they wanted there kids to be safe.
This is very rare.
A lot of people are trying to learn on the cheap. If you make learning to drive very expensive people will just drive illegally.

Him wrote:

This is not a criticism of driving instructors, just that I think there should be more teaching given to learners before theyre allowed to drive on their own.

Like what?
I am generally interested in what you think needs to be done.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:12 pm  

A compulsory set amount of hours before you can apply for test with a tick off system that shows you've had a lesson in most weathers/conditions ie Bright Sunshine, rain, icy or snow conditions, night time driving, rush hour.

A longer test

Skid pan training

Compulsory motorway training

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On passing your test draconian rules for the first 2 years

No car over a 1.3L and fixed limit on BHP output (stops souped up 1.3 death traps) for 2 years.

Blameworthy accidents in first 2 years means having to go for an assessment on your driving and possible license revocation if not satisfactory.

Keep the 6 points rule.

Telemetric insurance.
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10 years after passing and every 10 years there after having to attend a one day driving class to bring up any new road rules etc and one day driving assessment only for the basis of ironing out faults and bad habits that may have crept in .