Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:28 pm  

I cannot believe the posts on here - some needs to grow some and watch some re-runs of Love they Neighbour.

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:55 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I cannot believe the posts on here - some needs to grow some and watch some re-runs of Love they Neighbour.

Grow some?

The only thing needed to watch reruns of that shite and others of a similar vein is idiot cells

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:08 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Grow some?

The only thing needed to watch reruns of that shite and others of a similar vein is idiot cells

I think that this is one of those very rare occasions where you and Sal and I all agree about racism (if I read him right).

WRT "Love thy Neighbour" though ... in its defence, you could say it took the p1ss out of racism.
The wives in it were perfectly good friends and there was no racist aspect there.
Only the central bigot character was actually racist ... and he was the butt of all the jokes, like Alf Garnett was.

It was still peurile shiite, mind.

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:17 pm  

El Barbudo wrote: It was still peurile shiite, mind. If that's what you're looking for, look no further than Curry & Chips, not Johnny Speight's most glorious comedy

El Barbudo wrote: It was still peurile shiite, mind. If that's what you're looking for, look no further than Curry & Chips, not Johnny Speight's most glorious comedy

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:58 pm  

Rather than going on, I think that the following article, "Race and Sitcom" is a very good summary indeed. Especially for people too young to remember the programmes. One important aspect of this is that the object of a sitcom is to make the audience laugh, but amongst the audience there is the whole range of people from the worst racists to the fairest minded, and however an author may write a sitcom, he or she can't dictate the response of the viewer. So while a sitcom may be designed as a satirisation of racist attitudes, for example, that won't come across at all on screen if the studio audience is full of bigots and intentional or unintentional racists, since they will not get the joke, and will laugh at the wrong things. Alf Garnett (as indeed this article mentions) was a good case in point; to a reasonably enlightened person, he was the most outrageous right wing racist bigot, and you laughed at him, as he was ridiculous, and intentionally so. But the fact is there was a large chunk of the population who really didn't "get" that aspect at all, instead thinking "yeah, great, now there's a man who is saying exactly what I'm thinking". I'm not sure what a comedy writer is supposed to do about that, or if it is their job. Though it must be true that both comedy writers and actors are ATEOTD creatures of their own time, and it would be a mistake to think that somehow that makes them mistake-free paragons of righteousness, who can never put a foot wrong. So, for example, it should have been apparent that despite the intention to satirise, the way in which use was made of the words "wogs" and "coons" (for example) as a comedy vehicle was unacceptable. This does not make the writer or the actor a racist-in-hindsight (they weren't), but they would never in a million years do the same if the sitcom was being written today.

Rather than going on, I think that the following article, "Race and Sitcom" is a very good summary indeed. Especially for people too young to remember the programmes. One important aspect of this is that the object of a sitcom is to make the audience laugh, but amongst the audience there is the whole range of people from the worst racists to the fairest minded, and however an author may write a sitcom, he or she can't dictate the response of the viewer. So while a sitcom may be designed as a satirisation of racist attitudes, for example, that won't come across at all on screen if the studio audience is full of bigots and intentional or unintentional racists, since they will not get the joke, and will laugh at the wrong things. Alf Garnett (as indeed this article mentions) was a good case in point; to a reasonably enlightened person, he was the most outrageous right wing racist bigot, and you laughed at him, as he was ridiculous, and intentionally so. But the fact is there was a large chunk of the population who really didn't "get" that aspect at all, instead thinking "yeah, great, now there's a man who is saying exactly what I'm thinking". I'm not sure what a comedy writer is supposed to do about that, or if it is their job. Though it must be true that both comedy writers and actors are ATEOTD creatures of their own time, and it would be a mistake to think that somehow that makes them mistake-free paragons of righteousness, who can never put a foot wrong. So, for example, it should have been apparent that despite the intention to satirise, the way in which use was made of the words "wogs" and "coons" (for example) as a comedy vehicle was unacceptable. This does not make the writer or the actor a racist-in-hindsight (they weren't), but they would never in a million years do the same if the sitcom was being written today.

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:12 pm  

You could see Harry Enfield's 'Loadsamoney' character and Al Murray's pub landlord in exactly the same way.

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:42 pm  

The other end of the question is that conversely, being a racist doesn't mean you can't write funny comedy. As a prime example, Bernard Manning famously said (on live TV):
""They say you are what you eat. I 'm a c#nt."

[tb]

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:44 pm  

Strange, I remember that line being Chubby Brown's not Bernard Manning's. But there you go.

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:48 pm  

They probably, and very appropriately, shared it!

Re: Diane Abbott : Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:23 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Grow some?

The only thing needed to watch reruns of that shite and others of a similar vein is idiot cells

We are getting so precious that soon nobody will be able to say anything without someone suggesting there are racist overtones. For me this is a complete non-story - i am not offended in slightest and I bet deep down neither are 99% of the population. So what if she has a view about white people who really cares? - pity society is so politically correct it is so dull. You cannot cleanse a society by simply banning all discussion it will breed serious hatred. That is what I mean about Love they Neighbour nothing wrong with healthy banter without malice.