Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:04 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

We aren't living off the wealth accumulated in Victoria times. They did build some of the early infrastructure granted, although that has all been repaired and upgraded lots of times.

Just working longer hours does not make you a more productive or prosperous society. It's the amount of productivity, ie how much output you can produce from given inputs, that really matters. People say the steel industry in Sheffield has declined but it produces more steel per year these days than it ever has done in history, and more high tech advanced steel products as well. It just doesn't need as much labour input because it is now more efficient.

The wealth and prosperity of society on aggregate has increased significantly over recent decades. Most of this has been due to technological advances, which complement more highly skilled workers, but replace lower skilled workers. That means those at the top with the higher skills have enjoyed the benefits as their labour is worth more and also there is more demand for them hence driving up their wages. Whilst the rest have found the demand for their jobs decreasing and their wages decreasing.

I think we do still live, in effect, off the capital created in Victorian times. That gave the UK the "deep pockets" which has seen it through various crisis. It also created the financial infrastructure that has hitherto kept capital flowing though these Isles.

I agree that high-tech / high added value is where our short term future lies. The point is though that our lead in those areas will be rapidly eroded by the rise of the Far East and we will therefore more and more have to compete on labour price as our leadership in other areas disappears. You only need to look back to how quickly Japan went from a second rate producer to a qulaity one that left us standing to see the potential of China (which, I believe, take away our eminence in the finanial / capital markets over the next 20 years).

[DaveO]

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:38 pm  

Dally wrote:

Titan is training to (hopefully) become a high paid professional. If he passes his exams, etc he'll start off n twice the average salary with scope for rapid improvement in pay over the subsequent few years. Mind you, he disn't seem too happy with how last weeks set of exams. went.

Young Miss D didn't want to go to University this year. She has deferred until next year. So, she started tooking for jobs this week working in shops. She took CVs round to local businesses and those in the adjacent town. She's just been 'phoned up by one asking her to start tomorrow. Delivered CV Thursday. Interviewed friday. Offered job today. So, so far as I can see Osborne has got thing going. Let's hope Miss D can work accurately and quick enough now she's going out into that real world.

There are loads of decent jobs around for people who fulfil the criteria.

So because your daughter has got a job working in a shop for a year Osborne has got things going?

Will this "decent job" pay enough to allow Miss D to be completely self sufficient and pay to rent a flat, pay for her own food, heating, clothing, and travel etc?

Or will it simply allow her to live at home, with you effectively subsidising all the above and just give her some spending money to fund luxuries and nights out?

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:51 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Or will it simply allow her to live at home, with you effectively subsidising all the above and just give her some spending money to fund luxuries and nights out?

That bit sounds familiar.

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:20 pm  

DaveO wrote:

So because your daughter has got a job working in a shop for a year Osborne has got things going?

Will this "decent job" pay enough to allow Miss D to be completely self sufficient and pay to rent a flat, pay for her own food, heating, clothing, and travel etc?

Or will it simply allow her to live at home, with you effectively subsidising all the above and just give her some spending money to fund luxuries and nights out?

She wants to save up for a month's tour of China, having just had a couple of weeks there.

But I do know people who work in supermarkets on the shop floor and have flats, kids, etc. They work hard and don't moan about the jobs not being "decent." Interstingly, most of the people I'm thinking of are not British.

[DaveO]

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:56 pm  

Dally wrote:

She wants to save up for a month's tour of China, having just had a couple of weeks there.

But I do know people who work in supermarkets on the shop floor and have flats, kids, etc. They work hard and don't moan about the jobs not being "decent." Interstingly, most of the people I'm thinking of are not British.

So I will take that as a "no" then. Your daughters "decent job" isn't going to pay her a living wage.

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:55 am  

Dally wrote:

They work hard and don't moan about the jobs not being "decent." Interstingly, most of the people I'm thinking of are not British.

Are these the type of friends you meet in inefficient A&E waiting rooms?

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:19 am  

Dally wrote:

I think we do still live, in effect, off the capital created in Victorian times. That gave the UK the "deep pockets" which has seen it through various crisis...

We didn't have to borrow heavily to build the post-war prosperity, oh no.

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:08 pm  

People's real incomes are projected to rise next year for the first time in 3 years. Ed M is as unpopular a leader as Clegg and far more unpopular than even Dave. George is easing off the custs / difficult decisions until post 2014. These factors plus some massaging of taxes, etc pre-election suggest a Tory outright victory at the next election. If the Tories kick out Dave and put Boris in, it'll be a landslide. Labour are in last chance saloon when it comes to changing leader.

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:42 pm  

Dally wrote:

People's real incomes are projected to rise next year for the first time in 3 years...

Projected by whom?

Dally wrote:

.. Ed M is as unpopular a leader as Clegg and far more unpopular than even Dave...

Unpopular with you, you mean?

Dally wrote:

George is easing off the custs / difficult decisions until post 2014. These factors plus some massaging of taxes, etc pre-election suggest a Tory outright victory at the next election...

Post-2014 is 2015, i.e. probable election year.
If you are right (a very big IF) then Osborne's political nous will be even worse than his economic nous.
It is accepted wisdom within the tories that you do the unpopular stuff early.
2015 is not early.

Dally wrote:

If the Tories kick out Dave and put Boris in, it'll be a landslide. Labour are in last chance saloon when it comes to changing leader.

Boris is only popular in London.

Re: Osborne's policy starting to bear fruit? : Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:47 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Projected by whom?

Unpopular with you, you mean?

Post-2014 is 2015, i.e. probable election year.
If you are right (a very big IF) then Osborne's political nous will be even worse than his economic nous.
It is accepted wisdom within the tories that you do the unpopular stuff early.
2015 is not early.

Boris is only popular in London.

1. As reported in the press within the last 3 days.
2. Ditto. A poll.
3. You reckon (Boris)? I think you'll find he appeals across the board - he's a reminder of what the English are all about - prepared to speak out, eccentric, etc. That ppeals to the nostalgic; and his celebrity status appeals to the youth.