Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:34 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Those of us fortunate enough to have a job have to work to provide the taxes to provide the funding for the benefits. Can no one see why those that do work resent supporting those that "do not want to work" and would like to see them at least contribute something for the money.

There are those who are genuinely incapable of working through mental/physical illness but these are the minority allbeit a sizable minority who must be adequately provided for. The rest could do "like to do" community projects that would not happen as finite finances dictate funds must be directed elsewhere.

Yes, would give them a sense of purpose too and the confidence and skills to eventually move into paid work.

They might even enjoy it.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:47 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Just for the hell of it I entered £140,000 into a pension annuity calculator and assuming that your "pot" was that big the best rates that the small range of providers would offer ranged from £527 to £690 per month for a non-smoker aged 65.

Its a great indicator that its nigh-on impossible for the average person - and within that average will be many lower waged, for obvious reasons - to afford a private pension, if we assumed that everyone ONLY paid NIS for their pension provision and NOTHING towards healthcare, then you could look forward to a pension of around £175 per week upon retirement, if you ever arrived at retirement, not having any healthcare and all - you wouldn't arrive there for a start

My children are expected to make their own provisions for their pensions whilst at the same time still paying NIS for their own healthcare and for my state pension.

How the fook does that work then ?

This £140K thing is highly dubious though. If anybody paid 11% of their income into a private pension pot, instead of paying NI contributions, then for every £80 they put in, they get £100, because the pension provider claims the extra back off the taxman.

Then, pensions are based on pension funds. Now don't think I'm speaking up for the robbing dogs in the game, because I certainly aren't, but in general, if you invest in any pension, there is likely to be an annual return added into your pot.

If you want an illustration then the standard life website has a good basic one, if you were on around 30K and assuming a 4% growth then if you paid in £800 a month for your working life then you would end up with a pension of the equivalent of 30K

I know there are loads of imponderables but without any doubt you would beat a state pension into absolute fits. If you had the ability to run your on SIPP you could easily do huge amounts better than averaging 4%, too.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:50 pm  

How typically condescending of you Ajw. Does it not occur to you that there are people out there with more skills than you or I put together that are claiming JSA through no fault of their own? But I suppose working for £65 a week will give them back their self worth eh?

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:26 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

How typically condescending of you Ajw. Does it not occur to you that there are people out there with more skills than you or I put together that are claiming JSA through no fault of their own? But I suppose working for £65 a week will give them back their self worth eh?

Oh for goodness sake. Don't you realise that that is simply not possible?

The individual in question is the very epitome of perfection itself!

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:34 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Oh for goodness sake. Don't you realise that that is simply not possible?

The individual in question is the very epitome of perfection itself!

Only in the real world though

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:37 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Those of us fortunate enough to have a job have to work to provide the taxes to provide the funding for the benefits. Can no one see why those that do work resent supporting those that "do not want to work" and would like to see them at least contribute something for the money.

Yup, I can see where you are coming from but now, with the country just about turning the corner, with millions out of work who do want to work and lots of other things the government should be doing, is not the time to sort out the workshy.

The time to sort them out is at the peak of the economic cycle, a thing missed by Brown/Blair who chose instead to flood the UK with cheap labour from abroad rather than get the genuinely workshy off their backsides.

We need to concentrate on those who want to work, like 1400 of them sacked by Ford today. A real case study in making it easier for employers to hire and fire means employers will hire more...

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:52 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Oh for goodness sake. Don't you realise that that is simply not possible?

The individual in question is the very epitome of perfection itself!

And he didn't mention home insulation that time either.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:54 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark, I am on approx £30k a year (gross) and I would like to know how Standard Life think I can afford to put away £800 a month to my pension whilst also paying off a mortgage, the house hold bills, running the car I need to get to work and feeding myself.

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:02 pm  

dr_feelgood wrote:

Ferocious Aardvark, I am on approx £30k a year (gross) and I would like to know how Standard Life think I can afford to put away £800 a month to my pension whilst also paying off a mortgage, the house hold bills, running the car I need to get to work and feeding myself.

Get yourself on benefits mate, you could easily double that rate

Re: More undeserving poor told they should work for benefits : Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:15 pm  

dr_feelgood wrote:

Ferocious Aardvark, I am on approx £30k a year (gross) and I would like to know how Standard Life think I can afford to put away £800 a month to my pension whilst also paying off a mortgage, the house hold bills, running the car I need to get to work and feeding myself.

That was my first thought too as I can relate to the figure of £30k, you'll come out nett with around £2000 per month, now if two of you are on that sort of figure then £800 saved (for the whole of your working life) is probably do-able, but if only one of you is on what might be termed an average salary and the other is on a minimum wage no fixed hours contract, then the main wage earners salary is going to be all used up just by living before anyone has even thought of the word "pension".

The other thing I'd add is that the pension investors love to give the outward expectation that your "investment" gets an immediate 20% boost by tax relief and so how can you fail but increase your pot year on year ?

They like to give that impression, but of course thats not what their small print says, and when they actually lose more than what you paid in year on year (4 years out of 5), then they suddenly go very quiet, indeed, my pension investor didn't even have a standard letter put together to explain why my fund was decreasing year on year, all they could do was send me the one that they'd prepared for the good times, the one that starts "We're pleased to enclose your annual statement"...like pouring freshly squeezed lemon juice in a paper cut.