Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:17 pm  

Kosh wrote:

:lol:

And the scary thing is that you probably actually believe that.

I'm wondering why you choose NOT to believe it whilst - I assume - you believe Israel is committed to peace.

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:21 pm  

Kosh wrote:

Your naivety is charming, although somewhat surprising given how often you accuse others of it.

I didn't say that Hamas were the problem. That's just your usual knee-jerk response of assuming that anyone who doesn't agree 100% with your POV must automatically have the diametrically opposite POV. Hamas is certainly part of the problem, as is Israel. Two sets of murderous thugs cheerfully attempting to exterminate each other. Lovely.

I'm at a complete loss to explain how you EQUATE the suffering of both. Do you know the comparative death tolls since the Palestinians were kicked off their land by a colonial power?

Please explain how you do it. Seriously, I'm interested.

[Kosh]

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:23 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

I'm wondering why you choose NOT to believe it whilst - I assume - you believe Israel is committed to peace.

And there you go again with the assumptions. You could try actually reading what people post instead. For instance the bit where I describe both sides as murderous and bent on each other's annihilation?

Sweeping the state of Israel from the face of the planet very clearly does not refer to negotiation of a two-state solution. Anyone who honestly thinks that it does is wearing the rosiest of rose-tinted glasses.

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:25 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Israel could easily have control of those areas. But they don’t.

Yes, they could. But, oddly enough, Israel is conscious of world opinion and the damage it could suffer if it were to exterminate the entire Palestinian population. Which is why they are very careful over when to launch their attacks (such as immediately after the US elections).

The Palestinians also have a multitude of choices, not just the false dichotomy you have proposed.

Explain.

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:27 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Yes, they could. But, oddly enough, Israel is conscious of world opinion and the damage it could suffer if it were to exterminate the entire Palestinian population. Which is why they are very careful over when to launch their attacks (such as immediately after the US elections).

Because just after the US elections means obama would be less critical? Surely the time to do it would have been a week or two beforehand?

Explain.

fight or die arent the only options, just as they arent for israel

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:28 pm  

Kosh wrote:

And there you go again with the assumptions. You could try actually reading what people post instead. For instance the bit where I describe both sides as murderous and bent on each other's annihilation?

And you clearly didn't watch the Youtube clip. Watch it and respond. Please.

Sweeping the state of Israel from the face of the planet very clearly does not refer to negotiation of a two-state solution. Anyone who honestly thinks that it does is wearing the rosiest of rose-tinted glasses.

If Hamas have made the offer why hasn't Israel called its bluff? After all, if Hamas went back on its word it would clearly make the Israeli cause that much stronger.

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:31 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Because just after the US elections means obama would be less critical? Surely the time to do it would have been a week or two beforehand?

The fact that Israel picks its time to launch attacks in order to minimise overseas condemnation is beyond question. Even Haaretz (one of Israeli's leading newspapers - available in English) admits such.

ight or die arent the only options, just as they arent for israel

Explain.

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:37 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

The fact that Israel picks its time to launch attacks in order to minimise overseas condemnation is beyond question. Even Haaretz (one of Israeli's leading newspapers - available in English) admits such.

Really? Israel tries to present itself in the best light it can? I am surprised…..

Explain.

There are other choices, Fight and die isn’t the only choice. There other options, The options you have presented aren’t the only ones, there are a multitude of others

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:38 pm  

Seriously, I DEFY people to hold the same opinion about Israel after watching arguably the best summation of the Israel-Palestine conflict (made by someone outside the region).

Seriously, I DEFY people to hold the same opinion about Israel after watching arguably the best summation of the Israel-Palestine conflict (made by someone outside the region).

Re: Lest we forget : Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:39 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

...Israel has no intention of negotiating and will not cease until it controls all of the Gaza strip and West Bank. How much of the West Bank has it stolen already?

The Palestinians have a choice - die or fight. They're fighting.

This.
Israel knows very well that the more it squeezes Gaza, the greater the chances of retaliation from Hamas and the louder the voice of the more extreme elements within Gaza.

If the Welsh came back to Yorkshire where they lived thousands of years ago, claiming that it is unoccupied and belongs to them ... then divided it up with this New Wales separating the (now much smaller) East Riding from the (now much smaller) West Riding and then pushed me into Todmorden, meanwhile they build "settlements" all over the East Riding and a fkkin great wall to prevent the indigeneous East Riding Tykes from going to Leeds unless they have a permit from the Welsh.
You know what, I'd be a bit miffed and might just retaliate.
Then the Welsh would come over all affronted and demand the right to defend their civilians and invade the bit I live in, laying waste to a lot of it and sealing all the borders of it so that we can't export or import or trade or travel except through tunnels to Lancashire, starving us back into a subsistence age.

Would I fight back?
I think I might.