Re: Clegg and the economy : Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:40 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What would you suggest to be a suitable infrastructure projects? please don't say build some houses or roads!!

What's wrong with building more houses? There is obviously a massive demand for truly affordable housing

I've previously sketched out a way to build affordable rented homes that would cost rhe exchequer precisely buggerall and would then lead to stimulus in employment and a reduction in housing benefit.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:43 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

I don't think there is any doubt at all regarding the motives of the tories. They are seizing the opportunity to shrink the state by as much and wherever they can

and yet, people vote for 'em time after time.

Gifting prime contracts to their ultimate paymasters without any real tangible, long-term savings.

i know, just look at capita, fingers in so many public sector pies, their website is a feast of the great work they're doing in the public sector. all down to that fella aldridge (he builds schools too, well academies). but it's all a swizz, he gave pots of cash to the tories...oh, wait, sorry, it wasn't the tories, but blair and his chums. i must have been thinking of bernie ecclestone and the whole peddling cancer for cash affair....no, wait, he was giving cash to the labour party too.

i'm sure which ever marginal political party you give your vote to has firm views on this sort of thing, and i'm sure you'll agree that anyone decrying the tories for being in bed with big business while voting labour is nothing more than a hypocritical oaf.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:34 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What would you suggest to be a suitable infrastructure projects? please don't say build some houses or roads!!

Its exactly what is needed actually and it was a solution that The Thatcher employed from European money in the late 1970s, I should know, the company Iwas working for as a surveyor virtually built the whole of Washington New Town on European money, plus the Tyneside Metro, one involved several phases of private and council house building (and you thought the Tories never built council houses) plus a huge network of roads, and the other one of the biggest public transport infrastucture spends in our lifetime.

The building trades still involve large numbers of manual workers, skilled and unskilled, there are no machines that build houses or lay roads while one or two people stand machine minding and any decent house building project will involve dozens of private companies employing hundreds of workers, on each site, all of them taking home income, paying tax and spending money in shops.

I can't think of a quicker way to get government investment into employment and into increased retail spending within the UK economy, and end up with substantial infrastructure benefits.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:03 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

I can't think of a quicker way to get government investment into employment and into increased retail spending within the UK economy, and end up with substantial infrastructure benefits.

The only investment that government would be required to make, in my housebuilding scenario, is time and will. No money ever need change hands. It may require government guarantees but it wouldn't necessarily cost them a single brass farthing.

In fact the only thing that I can think of that's preventing them from initiating such a scheme is that no fucker will get rich from doing it

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:56 am  

cod'ead wrote:

What's wrong with building more houses? There is obviously a massive demand for truly affordable housing

I've previously sketched out a way to build affordable rented homes that would cost rhe exchequer precisely buggerall and would then lead to stimulus in employment and a reduction in housing benefit.

How is anyone going to get the money to buy them - banks are requiring deposits that are beyond what most first time buyers especially those looking to buy 'affordable' houses can muster.

Or are you suggesting these as an alternative local authority housing?

How many additional people with this employ? The government needs to find a way of stimulating manufacturing - turn raw materials into finished product is both people hungry and if run properly very profitable.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:04 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Its exactly what is needed actually and it was a solution that The Thatcher employed from European money in the late 1970s, I should know, the company Iwas working for as a surveyor virtually built the whole of Washington New Town on European money, plus the Tyneside Metro, one involved several phases of private and council house building (and you thought the Tories never built council houses) plus a huge network of roads, and the other one of the biggest public transport infrastucture spends in our lifetime.

The building trades still involve large numbers of manual workers, skilled and unskilled, there are no machines that build houses or lay roads while one or two people stand machine minding and any decent house building project will involve dozens of private companies employing hundreds of workers, on each site, all of them taking home income, paying tax and spending money in shops.

I can't think of a quicker way to get government investment into employment and into increased retail spending within the UK economy, and end up with substantial infrastructure benefits.

Roads don't use huge numbers of people - the majority is done by large machines - houses yes but it is a long term investment that takes years to see any benefit. The demand for affordable housing is mainly in and around London an area of dense population - where is the money going to come from? The government will have borrow huge amounts if you believe in Keynesian theory.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:38 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

How is anyone going to get the money to buy them - banks are requiring deposits that are beyond what most first time buyers especially those looking to buy 'affordable' houses can muster.

Yes thats because there is a shortage of the supply of housing. If you build more houses the price will fall.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:06 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Yes thats because there is a shortage of the supply of housing. If you build more houses the price will fall.

depends where you build them

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:38 pm  

samwire wrote:

depends where you build them

No, it depends more on what quantity they are built in.

A couple of thousand houses dotted around the south east won't change much in great scheme of things, building them in the tens of thousands country wide just might.

Re: Clegg and the economy : Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:49 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Roads don't use huge numbers of people - the majority is done by large machines - houses yes but it is a long term investment that takes years to see any benefit. The demand for affordable housing is mainly in and around London an area of dense population - where is the money going to come from? The government will have borrow huge amounts if you believe in Keynesian theory.

The demand for affordable housing is all around the country and as the parent of a child who is looking for an affordable house of her own I can see the evidence myself.

Truth of the matter is that there is a small government backed scheme to make new housing affordable to first time buyers called NewBuy which offers guarantees to lenders to allow those lenders to offer 95% mortgages.

Unfortunately its only available on a very limited number of developments and properties although I understand (and correct me if I'm wrong) that its actually doesn't cost HM Gov anything in hard cash, they just act as guarantors to the lending company.

Most new developments have a legal requirement as part of their planning authority to build a small percentage of houses which will qualify for NewBuy and these properties are ALWAYS sold off plan and immediately in the first few weeks of release - this indicates the huge demand for such properties.

As an example a development near here has two bed houses starting at £160k, which, if you can get in on the NewBuy scheme will require a deposit of £8k, if not then you'll need a minimum of £16k.

It may surprise you but £8k is not an unsurmountable obstacle to first time buyers, for a couple looking to spend upwards of £800 to £1000 a month on their first mortgage then a years worth of saving and getting used to putting that amount of money aside every month will generate their deposit, if not then some parents would consider stumping up that sort of money too - bump it up to £16k and you're now talking about saving for several years or lending your offspring some substantial amounts of cash and suddenly the option to rent becomes the only option.

Not that there is anything wrong with renting, other than the fact that its not going to stimulate the building trade very much, but a big push on schemes such as NewBuy and the previous HomeBuy scheme, would be popular, would stimulate the building trade (a HUGE business), would solve an imminent housing problem, would boost every allied business associated with having a home (DIY, Garden Centres, Furnishing Retail etc), and would not cost very much at all other than set-aside guarantees.



And I'll chuck another one into the mix for you - back in the recession of the early 90s the big saviour was 100% tax allowances for business asset purchases, and if no-one is modernising at the moment (and they aren't) then there is no tax income to lose by re-invoking this.