Re: Eastleigh : Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:38 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Completely unelectable - the demand for government to tell you how to live your life is low also do we really want all the higher personal taxes we would pay to be spent on inefficient public services and increased benefits?

I cannot pretend, unlike yourself, to talk on behalf of "we", but personally, I'd prefer a society where the poor, the low-paid and the vulnerable are not demonised, and where people who screw up and blight or ruin the lives of many more are not rewarded.

Re: Eastleigh : Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:18 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Keith wrote:

Can't help but think that the political landscape needs a new substantial left wing party, leaving existing labour and tory parties as the major centre left and centre right parties with the more right wing tories gravitating towards UKIP. That would leave us with four main parties and probably more coalition governments. No place for the lib dems, but as first past the post would probably need replacing too, their legacy would be that albeit indirectly they'd have helped bring about electoral reform. Be interested to see what more knowleagable political types think!

Completely unelectable - the demand for government to tell you how to live your life is low also do we really want all the higher personal taxes we would pay to be spent on inefficient public services and increased benefits?

Firstly, under the system I suggested, it would probably be quite hard for any party except the central ones to be electable and even they might need coalition partners quite regularly. That might enable both right and left to have some kind of proportionate voice rather than being marginalised in their current parties.

[DaveO]

Re: Eastleigh : Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:21 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

There's two and a half years to the next election and plenty can change in that time, hence I can see why Miliband etc won't make predictions about what the economic plan will be just yet.

The conservatives think they've got the discussion sewn up with the two responses "What would you do instead?" and "There you go, more uncosted and unfunded spending plans from Labour".
They'd add up every mention of anything new, every opposition to a cut, and total it all as "extra spending" and "same old Labour".

However, hanging back too long and allowing the conservatives to set the agenda looks like inactivity, I want to see some attack, rebuttals of nonsense, economic sense and genuine ideas rather than the same old party-line dross.
Labour should be arguing vigorously on their own terms, not allowing the conservatives to set them up to knock them down.
As you say, there's plenty of ammunition out there.

I am not suggesting Labour publish their manifesto now but as you mention above go on the attack and rebut the inaccurate spin. They need to stop apologising as well. There seems to be a view that to win back the electorates trust they have to keep apologising and admit to various mistakes. This makes them seem weak IMO and gives the impression the "It's all Labour's fault" stuck record on the economy the ConDem's spout at every opportunity is actually true.

They also need to not shy away from explaining how making sure people and companies pay their taxes and why restricting the bonus culture won't drive people away from the UK. Instead they still seem rather stuck as to how to appear business friendly while at the same time dealing with these obvious issues.

Re: Eastleigh : Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:49 pm  

Mintball wrote:

I cannot pretend, unlike yourself, to talk on behalf of "we", but personally, I'd prefer a society where the poor, the low-paid and the vulnerable are not demonised, and where people who screw up and blight or ruin the lives of many more are not rewarded.

So you want to go back to the days when Parliamentarians were not paid?

Re: Eastleigh : Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:34 pm  

Mintball wrote:

I'd prefer a society where the poor, the low-paid and the vulnerable are not demonised,.

I think most people would like to live in this sort of caring, Utopian like society, but, unfortunately, it will never happen, because human nature dictates that there will always be people who don't play the game fairly and choose instead to cheat any system that is set up to help the vulnerable.

Has with many things in life, the minority always spoil it for the majority.

Re: Eastleigh : Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:53 pm  

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

I don't think they are as nutty as you think they are.
The leader keeping himself out of the firing line and focusing on the MEP votes is a smart move.
I can honestly see them being the biggest MEP's party and in doing so costing Cameron his job and possibly forcing a referendum faster than they want in the fear of UKIP in the general.

I think we can all see how a referendum would end up so UKIP win anyway.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. I remember concerns being raised before the last general election that the BNP were making ground and might actually win a seat in parliament. I think I read on Twitter the other day that UKIP are just the BNP for people who shop at M+S, which seems a fair assessment to me.

Re: Eastleigh : Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:02 pm  

11571 votes in a mid term by election is nothing to get excited about

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:07 am  

Rock God X wrote:

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. I remember concerns being raised before the last general election that the BNP were making ground and might actually win a seat in parliament. I think I read on Twitter the other day that UKIP are just the BNP for people who shop at M+S, which seems a fair assessment to me.

I don't remember MP's of the current government actually making calls for them to be in discussions with the BNP and getting their heads together.
Tories have done exactly that today.
The BNP came across as raving loons but UKIP come across as smarter than that and they have a very easy target which is the Tory loony right.
Plus don't forget they have history of actually winning elections in the euro's.
Like I say the Tories will be worried right now and if UKIP do well in the euro's the cost may be high and not just to the Tories.

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:28 am  

rover49 wrote:

Thought she was poor to be honest. She should have livened it up a bit by nutting that Tory cow next to her, what a sanctimonious piece of work she was.

The Tory bint was nearly as irritating as the the Baroness, but not quite.
The Labourite female panellist was wholly uninspiring, loooked like it was the last place she wanted to be.
The Lib/Demmer had no answer to the female audience member who basically told him that his party leader was a liar.
Neil Hamilton. Dear me.
Ken Loach, the non politician, spoke more sense than the other four wasters put together.

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:24 am  

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

Rock God X wrote:

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. I remember concerns being raised before the last general election that the BNP were making ground and might actually win a seat in parliament. I think I read on Twitter the other day that UKIP are just the BNP for people who shop at M+S, which seems a fair assessment to me.

I don't remember MP's of the current government actually making calls for them to be in discussions with the BNP and getting their heads together.
Tories have done exactly that today.
The BNP came across as raving loons but UKIP come across as smarter than that and they have a very easy target which is the Tory loony right.
Plus don't forget they have history of actually winning elections in the euro's.
Like I say the Tories will be worried right now and if UKIP do well in the euro's the cost may be high and not just to the Tories.

The Tories' arses are just twitching because of the Eastleigh result. There's no way UKIP will ever be seen as anything other than a way to stick it to Dave. They're a one-issue party.