Re: Eurovision 2013 : Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:54 am  

The problem with contemporary music is just the fact that its contemporary, and it doesn't have a very long shelf life.

Its easy to forget, given how commercially successful Abba were, that in the 1970's/80s they were simply chart music pulp purveyors in the same way that Kaiser Cheifs are/were, they wrote tunes to hum along to, tunes to jump up and down and chant along to at a gig, simple tunes, simple lyrics, twice through the ears and they are lodged in your brain and you buy the album - thats the recipe.

Years later they are venerated as some kind of musical genuises, held up as a shining example to all as a pinnacle of musical perfection - they just got the recipe right, at the right time, and their skill meant that they had a slightly longer shelf life.

That is popular chart music in a nutshelf.


Just to throw something else into the mix I listened to guitarist Jon Gomm (jongomm.com) (watch him play "Ain't nobody on YouTube) on radio Leeds the other day speaking about music, writing music, teaching music, specifically for the guitar and he mentioned that he learned to play the guitar as a four year old child after an uncle brought home from Spain a three quarter flamenco guitar and a Beatles guitar music book.

He was asked why it was that in every guitar students case their is always a Beatles songbook and whether its because the Beatles tunes were so easy to play.

His reply was the contrary, that most popular chart music is much, much easier to learn than a standard Beatles tune mainly because most of the chart music for the past 20 years or so has been based on only four or five chord sequences, and usually very common, simple chords, whereas (he said) the Beatles, certainly George Harrison and Paul McCartney learned to play the guitar with help from an older pupil at their high school who had studied jazz guitar and that influence is apparent in many of their compositions with chords and sequences that are not seen in popular music now.

So there you are.

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:56 pm  

Yet another entire evening of tedious, utter tripe being dished out by the BBC.

What a brilliant excuse for going down to a pub with no telly

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:32 pm  

It stopped being a song contest the day we let all the little independant states in who just blatantly vote for their neighbours etc. 99 times out of 100 you could probably get almost the same voting results without actually hearing any songs !!.

We used to be good at it, i remember us always there or thereabouts when i was younger, but because we probably know that due to political opinions etc we wont get many votes anyway these days we tend to not take the song part of it as serious as we used to hence some of the dire awful stuff we're happy to send to 'compete'.

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:27 pm  

GIANT DAZ wrote:

It stopped being a song contest the day we let all the little independant states in who just blatantly vote for their neighbours etc. 99 times out of 100 you could probably get almost the same voting results without actually hearing any songs !!.

We used to be good at it, i remember us always there or thereabouts when i was younger, but because we probably know that due to political opinions etc we wont get many votes anyway these days we tend to not take the song part of it as serious as we used to hence some of the dire awful stuff we're happy to send to 'compete'.

We do seemingly take it very seriously, what with paying Lloyd Webber and a legendary US songwriter to team up the other year. Mind you their effort was still pretty dire, but the point is we did seem keen on it unlike what you think.

The neighbours voting thing is just a quirk, it never won anyone the contest. A great song would always win the contest.

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:47 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

We do seemingly take it very seriously, what with paying Lloyd Webber and a legendary US songwriter to team up the other year. Mind you their effort was still pretty dire, but the point is we did seem keen on it unlike what you think.

The neighbours voting thing is just a quirk, it never won anyone the contest. A great song would always win the contest.

OK, so who is going to win, based on your 'best song' theory.
Take as much time as you wish, up to the actual performances of course.
You're the expert apparently.
We can then check out your theory.

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:54 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

We do seemingly take it very seriously, what with paying Lloyd Webber and a legendary US songwriter to team up the other year. Mind you their effort was still pretty dire, but the point is we did seem keen on it unlike what you think.

The neighbours voting thing is just a quirk, it never won anyone the contest. A great song would always win the contest.

As i stopped watching it many years ago due to the farce it has become i will take your word on the 'great song' bit

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:36 am  

I will answer my own question.
I'm tipping that there won't be a great song in this year's contest and so it is impossible to say who will win.

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:08 am  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

I fully respect that music is all about personal musical choice and preference, so I'll just move away from the debate giggling at the idea that ABBA are better than Elbow or the Arctic Monkeys....

I can name many ABBA songs but nothing from Arctic Monkeys or Elbow. Just goes to show then that some bands are unforgettable and two others on here will not even register a blip in the history of music.

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:27 pm  

Stand-Offish wrote:

OK, so who is going to win, based on your 'best song' theory.
Take as much time as you wish, up to the actual performances of course.
You're the expert apparently.
We can then check out your theory.

Why the sarky tone? It's a thread FFS, lighten up man!

My theory would go something like if there is a song which is clearly oustanding, i.e. genuinely a good pop song, then it will win. But there is a shortage of good songs in the contest. And that's incidentally why we, who have absolutely no trouble in churning out loads of good stuff, and who remain in the vanguard of modern music, and who are admired and copied across Europe, should be able to write a song to win it or come bloody close every time.

However my interest in the contest is not for good music, as there isn't much. It is (a) because I genuinely have a good laugh watching it - I suppose schadenfreude might be the nearest description. Slomo car crash. (b) As a betting medium. I don't always win, but have made some pretty good money (in a modest way) for a lot of years now since it got more predictable.

All you have to do is listen through all the songs and make up your mind where you want to put your money. I do this before I have a look at the betting, so the betting doesn't influence me.

I do this not because I'm a glutton for punishment, nor because I love Eurocrap, or whatever but just because it is the Eurovision equivalent to what I do when betting on horses, or the NFL, or whatever, simply studying the form.

IMHO if you do get a genuinely good song, then enough voters in enough countries are not that bothered about voting for their neighbours or whatever, and will change to vote for a decent entry, and that will be enough to win. But if all the songs are not much use - as I believe to be the case this year - then this factor doesn't apply.

The bookies have Denmark as a clear favourite but the problem this year is that even that is not a good song. It is very much formula Eurocrap. So it is vulnerable as it won't pick up many floating voters.

My main bet, since you ask, is on Norway (Margaret Berger- I Feed You My Love). As long as it finishes in the first four I'll make a profit. It's not great, but it's the sort of song with enough about it that it would make the top 5 in the UK chart if released by a known UK artist, and I reckon that the slow pace and statuesque performance will appeal to enough Eastern European countries to clinch a good result.

My half-size bet is on Denmark as the blatant formula is a clever one - from Titanic-esque flute opening to blokes with big drums (which seems to go down well in many places)

If you want my sneaky outsider then you could do worse take Betfred's 25/1 on Azerbaijan, who seem to get near the top 4 every year whatever they do, and have a tuneful young fella on the case.

If you just have too much money and want to get rid of some, risk-free, bet on us.

Re: Eurovision 2013 : Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:37 pm  

Dead Man Walking wrote:

I can name many ABBA songs but nothing from Arctic Monkeys or Elbow. Just goes to show then that some bands are unforgettable and two others on here will not even register a blip in the history of music.

....To be fair, and with all due respect, this reply probably exhibits more about your lack of knowledge of music, than any slight on the musical talent of either band.