Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:02 pm  

A good friend of mine gave up his two bed house and moved to a one bed GF flat to avoid having to pay the extra only to be hit with a double whammy today, he has been informed his incapacity has been stopped and as of end of June he will be transferred onto job seekers and expected to find work. He is 59 years old and had polio as a child, despite being inconvenience with leg problems he got an apprenticeship as a plumber and worked up to having an accident (caused by his worsening leg issues) and damaged his back and his hip on his good leg. He was off work for months and refused incapacity at first and got a job in a warehouse (office based), but he could not continue and was put on incapacity around 9 years ago. He has progressively got worse and cannot walk too far.

This assessment was done by 'tick box' and he was not assessed by a specialist, even though his GP has said he is incapable of any meaningful work. He is appealing against it.

We are not talking a work shy scrounger (as the Tories are fond of labelling people), but someone who was devastated to stop work. If this is what this government (both sides of it) is about, the sooner they are consigned to history the better.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:35 pm  

rover49 wrote:

This assessment was done by 'tick box' and he was not assessed by a specialist, even though his GP has said he is incapable of any meaningful work. He is appealing against it.

Are these assessments done by an assessor in a meeting or personally? If in a meeting, does the assessed person have to sign at the end?

The reason I ask is that I believe people need to be firm and where the rigid form is inappropriate to their circumstances refuse to fill in the boxes (if completing personally). Just write next to relevant questions "form wholly inapproriate - see attached notes" and then fill in free form explaining circumstances, with doctor's / whatever report(s) attached. If someone else fills in and requests a signature, just refuse to sign until amended as I suggest. That's certainly what I do with daft forms. If the assessor then goes back and unilaterally makes up the answers would they have no chance at appeal. Make the buggers do some work for their fees rather than ticking boxes. If administering the system starts to cost either ATOS or whoever of HMG they'll soon drop the silly process.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:58 pm  

Solution - Tax Oxygen.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:18 am  

Brian McDonut wrote:

Solution - Tax Oxygen.

Doesn't fit the coalition model.
Now, if you'd said "Privatise oxygen", you'd have a seat in the Lords by now.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:14 pm  

rover49 wrote:

A good friend of mine gave up his two bed house and moved to a one bed GF flat to avoid having to pay the extra only to be hit with a double whammy today, he has been informed his incapacity has been stopped and as of end of June he will be transferred onto job seekers and expected to find work. He is 59 years old and had polio as a child, despite being inconvenience with leg problems he got an apprenticeship as a plumber and worked up to having an accident (caused by his worsening leg issues) and damaged his back and his hip on his good leg. He was off work for months and refused incapacity at first and got a job in a warehouse (office based), but he could not continue and was put on incapacity around 9 years ago. He has progressively got worse and cannot walk too far.

This assessment was done by 'tick box' and he was not assessed by a specialist, even though his GP has said he is incapable of any meaningful work. He is appealing against it.

We are not talking a work shy scrounger (as the Tories are fond of labelling people), but someone who was devastated to stop work. If this is what this government (both sides of it) is about, the sooner they are consigned to history the better.

I presume he was assessed by an Atos Health Care Professional? Which could be anything from a Doctor, to a nurse to a physiotherapist. Tell him to appeal and provide Atos with every single piece of medical proof he can get his hands on. I got my physio, consultant, rheumatology nurse, hip specialist, knee specialist, podiatrist and GP to write letters. In the "good old days" if the DWP wanted any extra information they would write to your GP or consultant but with Atos the onus is on the patient to provide every bit of medical evidence. I think he has upto 28 days to appeal and he will recieve the appeal rate money. Be warned though, the appeals are taking weeks even months before they are reviewed.

I know how he feels, I have been fighting this battle with them for 2 years now. Tell him to never give up as that is what they rely on you to do. Good luck for him

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:19 pm  

Dally wrote:

Are these assessments done by an assessor in a meeting or personally? If in a meeting, does the assessed person have to sign at the end?

The reason I ask is that I believe people need to be firm and where the rigid form is inappropriate to their circumstances refuse to fill in the boxes (if completing personally). Just write need to relevant questions "form wholly inapproriate - see attached notes" and then fill in free form explaining circumstances, with doctor's whatever report(s) attached. if someone else fills in and requests a signature, just refus to sign until amended as I suggest. That's certainly what I do with daft forms. If the assessor then goes back and unilaterally makes up the answers would they have no chance at appeal. Make the buggers do some work for their fees rather than ticking boxes. If administering the sysyem starts to cost either ATOS or whoever of HMG they'll soon drop the silly process.

People have aready done things similar or queried the credentials of the "health care professional" and they have been put down as a "no show" and their money withdrawn. I know there is a lot going on around mental health and having an Atos assesment as mental health has to be assessed by a fully qualified mental health care specialist not just some random physiotherapist that Atos are employing......watch this space!!

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:22 pm  

O/T but related to the above posts - there's an interesting letter in last week's Private Eye about wheelchair access to ATOS assessment centres (following an article in the previous issue about the lack of accessible centres).

Effectively the opinion is that if people can get in when there is no wheelchair access they are not disabled, so potentially fit for work and if they can't get in, they are considered as "failed to attend" and have benefits stopped.

Quite far fetched, so possibly true.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:31 pm  

Chris28 wrote: O/T but related to the above posts - there's an interesting letter in last week's Private Eye about wheelchair access to ATOS assessment centres (following an article in the previous issue about the lack of accessible centres). Effectively the opinion is that if people can get in when there is no wheelchair access they are not disabled, so potentially fit for work and if they can't get in, they are considered as "failed to attend" and have benefits stopped. Quite far fetched, so possibly true. From last year Chris; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20423701 Ours in Hull is Stanley Street which is all on one level. Its also not the only things that can get your benefit stopped. Some have been known to use CCTV in the car park and if you drive yourself you are fit for work. If you look nice and have makeup on and nice hair you are deemed to be able to get yourself ready and be fit for work. One of the favourite questions is "Did you watch Eastenders/Corrie/Emmerdale last night", you think they are being polite but if you say yes then you are deemed able to sit still for half an hour and be fit for work. Another is "Do you have pets?" If you say yes and leave it at that, then you are deemed capable of looking after pets therefore fit for work. The answers have to be "Yes I did watch TV but had to get up/stretch (or whatever) after about 10 minutes, etc" and "Yes I have two dogs but my spouse is their primary care giver." And never go looking presentable either!!

Chris28 wrote: O/T but related to the above posts - there's an interesting letter in last week's Private Eye about wheelchair access to ATOS assessment centres (following an article in the previous issue about the lack of accessible centres). Effectively the opinion is that if people can get in when there is no wheelchair access they are not disabled, so potentially fit for work and if they can't get in, they are considered as "failed to attend" and have benefits stopped. Quite far fetched, so possibly true. From last year Chris; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20423701 Ours in Hull is Stanley Street which is all on one level. Its also not the only things that can get your benefit stopped. Some have been known to use CCTV in the car park and if you drive yourself you are fit for work. If you look nice and have makeup on and nice hair you are deemed to be able to get yourself ready and be fit for work. One of the favourite questions is "Did you watch Eastenders/Corrie/Emmerdale last night", you think they are being polite but if you say yes then you are deemed able to sit still for half an hour and be fit for work. Another is "Do you have pets?" If you say yes and leave it at that, then you are deemed capable of looking after pets therefore fit for work. The answers have to be "Yes I did watch TV but had to get up/stretch (or whatever) after about 10 minutes, etc" and "Yes I have two dogs but my spouse is their primary care giver." And never go looking presentable either!!

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:33 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

I presume he was assessed by an Atos Health Care Professional? Which could be anything from a Doctor, to a nurse to a physiotherapist. Tell him to appeal and provide Atos with every single piece of medical proof he can get his hands on. I got my physio, consultant, rheumatology nurse, hip specialist, knee specialist, podiatrist and GP to write letters. In the "good old days" if the DWP wanted any extra information they would write to your GP or consultant but with Atos the onus is on the patient to provide every bit of medical evidence. I think he has upto 28 days to appeal and he will recieve the appeal rate money. Be warned though, the appeals are taking weeks even months before they are reviewed.

I know how he feels, I have been fighting this battle with them for 2 years now. Tell him to never give up as that is what they rely on you to do. Good luck for him

Isn't there also a far greater chance of a successful appeal if the apellant attends in person? I realise that Atos do not make attendance easy but maybe that's the very reason?

The whole sense of justice has turned on its head with the disabled having to prove they really are disable (innocent) after being declared to be not disabed (guilty)

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:39 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Isn't there also a far greater chance of a successful appeal if the apellant attends in person? I realise that Atos do not make attendance easy but maybe that's the very reason?

The whole sense of justice has turned on its head with the disabled having to prove they really are disable (innocent) after being declared to be not disabed (guilty)

A different DWP assesor will look at the form you provided again with any extra that you have submitted in the meantime which you are quite entitled to do, provided it reaches them within the 28 day limit. Its always worth getting the original assesment back as well, so you know what you have scored points on and what you haven't. If you "fail" again you will be given a chance to take it to tribunal (an independent panel) and its then you have to go in person, always with someone with you. People don't realise that its the DWP who actually make the decision, not Atos, they just ask the (rather ludicrous) questions on behalf of the DWP.