Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:23 am  

One of my customers is a Lady (cousin of the Queen and great,great,great granddaughter of Victoria). I get around the m'lady bollox by only talking to her husband (a commoner), who likes to be called Mark

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:29 am  

cod'ead wrote:

One of my customers is a Lady (cousin of the Queen and great,great,great granddaughter of Victoria). I get around the m'lady bollox by only talking to her husband (a commoner), who likes to be called Mark

Is that his name?

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:57 am  

Chris28 wrote:

Is that his name?

No, he's actually a dog with a hare lip

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:28 am  

No, Murray shouldn't get a knighthood or any other honour. Yet. I don't think sports men & women should get honours until they've retired. For instance Jessica Ennis has a CBE, given primarily for her gold at the 2012 Olympics. So what happens if she wins gold again at the next one? And maybe another in a different event? The same applies to Murray, if he gets a knighthood for this Wimbledon win what does he get if he wins it again?
As for businessmen, well in some cases it might be justified but in general I'm against it as I think it often just goes to those who know the right people.
As for civil servants, it's a joke that completely devalues the honours. Civil servants shouldn't just get one simply for doing their job and because they're next in line, they should be the same as everyone else. If they make some kind of outstanding contribution then fine, but it shouldn't just be a perk of the job.

I like the honours system, I think it's a good way of the state recognising people and their contribution. I just wish it was better and more focused upon normal people rather than celebrities, current sportspeople and civil servants. I always remember seeing a programme on TV a few years ago that was primarily about the Queen but it showed her giving out some honours and had a quick piece with a farmer from Wales who was getting an MBE I think. He was an old guy who had been farming for about 45 years and came across as simply a quiet, gentle old man. He was literally in tears just talking about it. That's who should be getting these honours instead of, for instance, Rob Brydon.

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:32 am  

Ferguson was knighted in 1999 - the year that he first won the Champions League.

Compare that with Brain Clough (two EC wins with Nottingham Forest in the late 70's, an achievement far greater than Ferguson's win with Man United), he was only given an OBE in 1992.

Bob Paisley. Won 3 EC's with Liverpool. Was given an OBE the year he retired.

Bill Shankly was given an OBE 4 months after he retired.

Given that others were given far less for far more, and the general abuse that was dished out by Ferguson after he'd been knighted, that should be a general warning not to give the highest awards out to people who are still operating in their field.

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:36 am  

Big Graeme wrote:

Erm, his cheque went to the Royal Marsden. Didn't make a song and dance about it, just did it.

I think that was just a rumour on Twitter. Some journo or other later tweeted that he'd asked Murray and he'd said that it wasn't the case.

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:46 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

1. It would depend entirely who it was, and my personal estimation of them. When I have met Geoff Boycott, I have always made a point of calling him Sir Geoff. I think the polite thing to do would be a bit like meeting your bird's dad -it would be "Mr. " which if he wasn't a tit should lead immediately to a "call me Fred" reply.

I don't agree with the honours system (as it stands) at all, so I wouldn't call anyone 'Sir xxx' whether I was meeting them for the first time or not. Incidentally, I wouldn't call my bird's dad 'Mr xxx' either. One can be polite without being deferential.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Say you were a reporter for the Wigan Herald and you were interviewing Sir Alex Ferguson. You never met before. I would say that calling him "Alex" unbidded would be plain damn rude. Calling him "Mr. Ferguson" would be plain silly, as you are being politely deferential, by using a formal title, but you are using the wrong one. I would feel perfectly comfortable sticking with "Sir Alex".

I'd say that would depend on what the protocol is for reporters interviewing football managers. If it would be acceptable for him to call David Moyes 'David' or Steve Bruce 'Steve', then there's no reason he shouldn't call Alex Ferguson 'Alex'. No person suddenly becomes more deserving of respect than another because they've been handed some arbitrary title by the government/head of state.

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:52 am  

Him wrote: No, Murray shouldn't get a knighthood or any other honour. Er, he's already an OBE Him wrote: Yet. I don't think sports men & women should get honours until they've retired. For instance Jessica Ennis has a CBE, given primarily for her gold at the 2012 Olympics. So what happens if she wins gold again at the next one? And maybe another in a different event? I'd have a fair bet that in time she is a certainty for a Dame Jess. And that would be great. Him wrote: The same applies to Murray, if he gets a knighthood for this Wimbledon win what does he get if he wins it again? See my earlier post, you're missing the point entirely. The recognition is for what you've done. Surely you can understand why Hillary, if he'd climbed Everest twenty more times, would not have got twenty more gongs? Or would you be puzzled by why there would not at all have been the same fuss about him doing it again, and again? Him wrote: As for businessmen, well in some cases it might be justified but in general I'm against it as I think it often just goes to those who know the right people. Tend to agree, especially as there are professional lobbying firms that exist to advise on and prepare for and assist making applications (yes anyone can apply or be put forward) eg this lot Him wrote: As for civil servants, it's a joke that completely devalues the honours. Civil servants shouldn't just get one simply for doing their job and because they're next in line, they should be the same as everyone else. If they make some kind of outstanding contribution then fine, but it shouldn't just be a perk of the job. I can see your point, but don't entirely agree, though I have never liked Buggins' turn systems. I think the common thread between civil service awards and sportsmen awards and many others is that of doing a great service for the country. The principle is OK but I'm not convinced it is properly applied. Him wrote: I like the honours system, I think it's a good way of the state recognising people and their contribution. I just wish it was better and more focused upon normal people rather than celebrities, current sportspeople and civil servants. I always remember seeing a programme on TV a few years ago that was primarily about the Queen but it showed her giving out some honours and had a quick piece with a farmer from Wales who was getting an MBE I think. He was an old guy who had been farming for about 45 years and came across as simply a quiet, gentle old man. He was literally in tears just talking about it. That's who should be getting these honours instead of, for instance, Rob Brydon. [/quote] But in fact a huge number of your "ordinary people" do get honours. It's just that apart from maybe a paragraph in their local papers, no media takes any interest in 99% of them. Not sure what Brydon has done wrong to single him out, but I suppose his award did come soon after he'd presented the Queen's Jubilee bash. Maybe Brenda had a word?

Him wrote: No, Murray shouldn't get a knighthood or any other honour. Er, he's already an OBE Him wrote: Yet. I don't think sports men & women should get honours until they've retired. For instance Jessica Ennis has a CBE, given primarily for her gold at the 2012 Olympics. So what happens if she wins gold again at the next one? And maybe another in a different event? I'd have a fair bet that in time she is a certainty for a Dame Jess. And that would be great. Him wrote: The same applies to Murray, if he gets a knighthood for this Wimbledon win what does he get if he wins it again? See my earlier post, you're missing the point entirely. The recognition is for what you've done. Surely you can understand why Hillary, if he'd climbed Everest twenty more times, would not have got twenty more gongs? Or would you be puzzled by why there would not at all have been the same fuss about him doing it again, and again? Him wrote: As for businessmen, well in some cases it might be justified but in general I'm against it as I think it often just goes to those who know the right people. Tend to agree, especially as there are professional lobbying firms that exist to advise on and prepare for and assist making applications (yes anyone can apply or be put forward) eg this lot Him wrote: As for civil servants, it's a joke that completely devalues the honours. Civil servants shouldn't just get one simply for doing their job and because they're next in line, they should be the same as everyone else. If they make some kind of outstanding contribution then fine, but it shouldn't just be a perk of the job. I can see your point, but don't entirely agree, though I have never liked Buggins' turn systems. I think the common thread between civil service awards and sportsmen awards and many others is that of doing a great service for the country. The principle is OK but I'm not convinced it is properly applied. Him wrote: I like the honours system, I think it's a good way of the state recognising people and their contribution. I just wish it was better and more focused upon normal people rather than celebrities, current sportspeople and civil servants. I always remember seeing a programme on TV a few years ago that was primarily about the Queen but it showed her giving out some honours and had a quick piece with a farmer from Wales who was getting an MBE I think. He was an old guy who had been farming for about 45 years and came across as simply a quiet, gentle old man. He was literally in tears just talking about it. That's who should be getting these honours instead of, for instance, Rob Brydon. [/quote] But in fact a huge number of your "ordinary people" do get honours. It's just that apart from maybe a paragraph in their local papers, no media takes any interest in 99% of them. Not sure what Brydon has done wrong to single him out, but I suppose his award did come soon after he'd presented the Queen's Jubilee bash. Maybe Brenda had a word?

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:54 am  

Rock God X wrote:

Incidentally, I wouldn't call my bird's dad 'Mr xxx' either.

Does your missus know you've got a bird?

Re: Honours and gongs : Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:55 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Does your missus know you've got a bird?

Strictly need to know, that, my fishy friend.