Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:01 am  

I despised Esther Rantzen!

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:14 am  

WIZEB wrote:

I despised Esther Rantzen!

When the Savile story broke she was quick enough to get on camera to tell us about the rumours she had heard at the time ... but it became clear that this wonderful saintly caring person who seems to think she invented compassion for abused children did nothing about it.

Compassion was good for her later career but she certainly screwed up on that one.

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:30 am  

Another one I'd forgotten: Paul O'Grady, interviewed in the Independent wrote: ... This ignites immediately when the subject of Jimmy Savile arises. As child abuse allegations about the former BBC star continue to swirl, O'Grady recalls his own experience. "When I worked in a children's home in West Kirby in the 1970s, Jimmy Savile came to visit. One of the housemothers was told not to let him unsupervised on the girls unit. At the time we thought it was because he didn't want to be on his own with the kids – that he wanted a member of staff to talk to. We had no idea. We were so naïve. I wouldn't have even known what a paedophile was." But some of the kids were already being abused. The Children's Convalescent Home and School, for whom O'Grady, now 57, worked as a housefather between the ages of 18 and 21, was mostly for disabled children. In Devil Rides Out, his second memoir, O'Grady documents sexual abuse charges by former pupils that arose 25 years later, in the late 1990s. Four male members of staff were jailed as a result. "Why didn't the children tell me? I felt I'd let them all down," he wrote. Today, as we sit in a hotel meeting room opposite Broadcasting House, the presenter, who started working for the BBC in 2003, rails at some of the press reaction to the Savile scandal. "It's being used as a stick to beat the BBC with. I never even heard a whisper of it at the Beeb. If I'd got a whiff, even then, that someone was in a dressing room with a girl of 14 I'd have reported it. I'd have confronted them." Full story Includes, incidentally, some references to the abuse (not sexual) he and his fellow pupils received at school.

Another one I'd forgotten: Paul O'Grady, interviewed in the Independent wrote: ... This ignites immediately when the subject of Jimmy Savile arises. As child abuse allegations about the former BBC star continue to swirl, O'Grady recalls his own experience. "When I worked in a children's home in West Kirby in the 1970s, Jimmy Savile came to visit. One of the housemothers was told not to let him unsupervised on the girls unit. At the time we thought it was because he didn't want to be on his own with the kids – that he wanted a member of staff to talk to. We had no idea. We were so naïve. I wouldn't have even known what a paedophile was." But some of the kids were already being abused. The Children's Convalescent Home and School, for whom O'Grady, now 57, worked as a housefather between the ages of 18 and 21, was mostly for disabled children. In Devil Rides Out, his second memoir, O'Grady documents sexual abuse charges by former pupils that arose 25 years later, in the late 1990s. Four male members of staff were jailed as a result. "Why didn't the children tell me? I felt I'd let them all down," he wrote. Today, as we sit in a hotel meeting room opposite Broadcasting House, the presenter, who started working for the BBC in 2003, rails at some of the press reaction to the Savile scandal. "It's being used as a stick to beat the BBC with. I never even heard a whisper of it at the Beeb. If I'd got a whiff, even then, that someone was in a dressing room with a girl of 14 I'd have reported it. I'd have confronted them." Full story Includes, incidentally, some references to the abuse (not sexual) he and his fellow pupils received at school.

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:48 am  

I agree with you that the BBC are getting way too much of a kicking over this. I think it's another massive piece of BS, similar to the way the BBC got a kicking over Andrew Gilligan/David Kelly when the government were blatantly lying to go to war.

I think the BBC are spectacularly bad at defending themselves. In fact people like Gambaccini are feeding their attacks when they allude that they knew when they really didn't.

But I don't think the correct response to that is to try and get an equally unfair judgement on others to spread the BS. Which is IMO how you started this thread.

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:25 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

When the Savile story broke she was quick enough to get on camera to tell us about the rumours she had heard at the time ... but it became clear that this wonderful saintly caring person who seems to think she invented compassion for abused children did nothing about it.

Compassion was good for her later career but she certainly screwed up on that one.

wikipedia wrote:

Savile Child Abuse Allegations

In Exposure: The Other Side of Jimmy Savile, broadcast on 3 October 2012, Rantzen, after seeing the interviews the programme contains, acknowledged that the jury was no longer out about Jimmy Savile's abuse of children.[9] She told Channel 4 News: "I heard the rumours almost immediately. It was always said that he behaved inappropriately with children, but rumours are not evidence."[10]

Rantzen's integrity was called into question because she chose not to pursue the rumours she heard of acts of unacceptable sexual behaviour by Savile,[11] particularly during her time at the BBC. Rantzen has denied hearing specific allegations,[3] and expressed her concern that public criticism of her role could threaten her work as the patron of charities concerned with child abuse[12]

Rantzen has NO excuse for not following up on this or passing the rumour on to police. That's Life were involved with: "the investigation of a boarding school with a headmaster who was a paedophile who employed several paedophile teachers".

Rantzen says public criticism could threaten her work with child abuse charities, but unless she has got a spectacularly good excuse for not acting she has screwed up so bad she shouldn't be involved in the work anyway.

I think Rantzen deserves massive respect and praise for setting up Childline - even if she only did it because it helped her career. But unless she has explained herself exceptionally well she deserves a huge stain on her character. IMO she implicated herself with her words in the same way Savile did with his autobiography.

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:33 pm  

He forced beauty to fondle him in caravan EXCLUSIVE By STEPHEN MOYES A FORMER beauty queen fled in terror after Sir Jimmy Savile indecently assaulted her in his caravan, boasting: “I am the strongest man in England.” Jill, 61, had no experience of men when Savile, whose fan club she belonged to, sent his Rolls-Royce to her mum’s B&B to pick her up. Savile bundled her into his caravan, called her a “nice little dolly bird” and asked if she would like to be locked in his cupboard so she could stay with him. Jill — not her real name — told The Sun: “He jumped on me and pulled my hand to his crotch. He was wearing very tight trousers. I realised he was excited and he said, ‘I am the strongest man in England’. I thought he was a bit of a wimp.” Jill was spared an even worse ordeal when he kicked her out after she said she wasn’t on the pill. She recalled: “He asked why not, and I told him I wasn’t that sort of girl. “The next minute he stood up, asked if I had my bus fare home and ushered me out. I was in shock and ran off.” Jill, from Worthing, West Sussex, was 20 when Savile visited her home town. She finally went to Sussex Police to report the incident in 2008 but no action was taken. Jill said: “I was a very naive young woman when he assaulted me and I never got over it. I am angry he got away with it as long as he lived. “But what he did to me was nothing compared to what he has done to lots of other girls. I am glad people can finally see him for what he is.” Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... z2ZbTnhWKx I think the death penalty is appropriate for this. Not for him, but for her. WTF. edit: I'm reading Giving Victims a Choice, which was the report written by the Met and NSPCC. Investigation in to victim who said that in 1970 she was assaulted by Savile in his caravan in Sussex. The victim was reluctant to support a prosecution. Tortured. Then the death penalty.

He forced beauty to fondle him in caravan EXCLUSIVE By STEPHEN MOYES A FORMER beauty queen fled in terror after Sir Jimmy Savile indecently assaulted her in his caravan, boasting: “I am the strongest man in England.” Jill, 61, had no experience of men when Savile, whose fan club she belonged to, sent his Rolls-Royce to her mum’s B&B to pick her up. Savile bundled her into his caravan, called her a “nice little dolly bird” and asked if she would like to be locked in his cupboard so she could stay with him. Jill — not her real name — told The Sun: “He jumped on me and pulled my hand to his crotch. He was wearing very tight trousers. I realised he was excited and he said, ‘I am the strongest man in England’. I thought he was a bit of a wimp.” Jill was spared an even worse ordeal when he kicked her out after she said she wasn’t on the pill. She recalled: “He asked why not, and I told him I wasn’t that sort of girl. “The next minute he stood up, asked if I had my bus fare home and ushered me out. I was in shock and ran off.” Jill, from Worthing, West Sussex, was 20 when Savile visited her home town. She finally went to Sussex Police to report the incident in 2008 but no action was taken. Jill said: “I was a very naive young woman when he assaulted me and I never got over it. I am angry he got away with it as long as he lived. “But what he did to me was nothing compared to what he has done to lots of other girls. I am glad people can finally see him for what he is.” Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... z2ZbTnhWKx I think the death penalty is appropriate for this. Not for him, but for her. WTF. edit: I'm reading Giving Victims a Choice, which was the report written by the Met and NSPCC. Investigation in to victim who said that in 1970 she was assaulted by Savile in his caravan in Sussex. The victim was reluctant to support a prosecution. Tortured. Then the death penalty.

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:12 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... z2ZbTnhWKx I think the death penalty is appropriate for this. Not for him, but for her. WTF. edit: I'm reading Giving Victims a Choice, which was the report written by the Met and NSPCC. Tortured. Then the death penalty. Thats how he got away with it for the whole of his life though, certainly in the 60s through to the 80s the police were a male dominated organisation (Life On Mars was spot on with its observations of this aspect) and famous men like Savile might be seen as "a bit strange", notes may be made not to leave him alone with young vulnerable women, but when it came down to actual real evidence of assault and/or rape the culture of "Well you probably asked for it" would have kicked in and would have prevailed right through the court system even up to senior judges.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... z2ZbTnhWKx I think the death penalty is appropriate for this. Not for him, but for her. WTF. edit: I'm reading Giving Victims a Choice, which was the report written by the Met and NSPCC. Tortured. Then the death penalty. Thats how he got away with it for the whole of his life though, certainly in the 60s through to the 80s the police were a male dominated organisation (Life On Mars was spot on with its observations of this aspect) and famous men like Savile might be seen as "a bit strange", notes may be made not to leave him alone with young vulnerable women, but when it came down to actual real evidence of assault and/or rape the culture of "Well you probably asked for it" would have kicked in and would have prevailed right through the court system even up to senior judges.

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:27 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Thats how he got away with it for the whole of his life though, certainly in the 60s through to the 80s the police were a male dominated organisation (Life On Mars was spot on with its observations of this aspect) and famous men like Savile might be seen as "a bit strange", notes may be made not to leave him alone with young vulnerable women, but when it came down to actual real evidence of assault and/or rape the culture of "Well you probably asked for it" would have kicked in and would have prevailed right through the court system even up to senior judges.

"Got away with it"????

WTF did he do?

He thought he was going to be screwing an easy, hot chick. An easy, 20 YEAR OLD, hot chick. His driver picks her up in his Rolls Royce, drops her off at his caravan.

He's not ambiguous about what he wants. He wants it now. He gets on with it.

He asks if she's on the pill. She says not, "I'm not that type of girl." He pretty much shows her the door because what he thought she was "his type of girl" clearly wasn't.

Seriously, if that allegation was made to the police today against Justin Timberlake or a PL football player do you think the police would be treating it seriously? IMO they'd have been going down the "treat the mental time waster respectfully but get her out of here as quickly as possible" route. The Sun article didn't mention it (can't think why), but it was her that didn't want the case to be followed up, not the police or CPS.

If she'd gone to The Sun with that story when Savile was alive. I don't think there's a chance they'd have been interested. The journalist would be, "This is a POS, the woman is a flake". If an idiot journo did write the article, the editor and the lawyers would be binning it and concluding that they needed to get a new writer.

If the woman had wanted the police to act further, I think the chances of a conviction are practically zero. And that's just on a lurid article from her side.

But when it's a dead guy The Sun can write about the vile paedo and how Savile ruined her life. The police are clearly counting that as one of Savile's offences. In fact, hers was one of the cases that had been brought to the police before the Savile documentary.

You can't libel a dead guy. And if only every criminal would die so they couldn't defend themselves over allegations the police would appear about 100 times better than they are.

I read about Wilfred De'ath, who was arrested as part of Yew Tree. De'ath claimed that it wasn't him because he hadn't even got the job that got him access to that type of event at the time. I was staggered that he was being arrested over a 40 year old allegation of groping at the cinema.

I read another "victim" account where Savile was hitting on a girl who says she was 14 at the time. Savile kissed her "with his disgusting cigar breath". Savile asked the girl if she liked it, she said she didn't so Savile left her alone and went looking for a girl who was up for it.

I think Savile definitely broke the law by sleeping with under age girls. I think he is *probably* guilty enough of enough vile crime that he pretty much deserves his reputation shredding anyway. But just on reading the highlights I am in no way convinced that Savile is anything near the predatory paedophile that he's been painted as.

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:08 am  

Do I think the police would treat an allegation of sexual assault seriously today regardless of who "the star" was ?

Yes I do, at the least they'd investigate it further rather than just dismissing it in the way you suggest, their booty would be on the line if they didn't - 30 or 40 years ago they could wave the girl away with a lecture on how no-one would ever believe her if she repeated her tale, it happened, and not just to females either, if you were black in the 60s and 70s then your access to justice was also pretty limited, have a read up of the David Oluwale story the investigation of which was seen as an attack on the Leeds police force by the Met - a couple of my friends joined the police in the mid 70s and it was still a very sore point within the ranks.

Re: Never mind blaming the Beeb : Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:52 am  

When I was 14 or 15, in the early 70's, a number of girls at my school would regularly go to a local Thursday night disco. It was notionally 18+ but younger girls could easily get in. Saville would often turn up unannounced and do an impromptu DJ set for half an hour. While he was on stage the bouncers would wander round asking girls (the underage ones) "would you like meet Jimmy backstage". The girls I knew wouldn't go anywhere near him. They knew of his reputation and regarded him as a dirty middle aged man. But apparently others did unless someone warned them off.

Because I was aware of his reputation I kept a mild interest in any press reports about him. Whenever there was a positive article about him, praising his charity work, there would often be another article a couple of pages further on about child abuse or underage sex. It was like an in joke. Once when he'd received an award (might have been his knighthood) I read a glowing article about him in one of the sundays. On the next page was an article about child abuse and the small number successful prosecutions. An unnamed senior police officer was quoted as saying something on the lines of "we're keeping tabs one well known public figure who we keep getting complaints about. But we'd never get a conviction, the general public regard him as a saint. No jury would believe a young lass over him".

I think the media generally were complicit in allowing Saville to get away with it. But the BBC employed him, protected him, turned a blind eye to his behaviour and deserve every bit of criticism they receive.