Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:37 am  

post wrote:

Correct, are we heading towards a totalitarian state?

Not yet.
But lobbing people into a drunk tank just on the dubious judgement of some quota-driven employee of a privatised company whose only incentive is profit rather than a sense of civic responsibility would be possibly one step on the road you suggest.

To be constitutionally compliant, arrest would have to be done by the police so, basically, what is being suggested is that the police contract-out the transport and containment.

Quite how that is an improvement over the current situation, I don't see.

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:00 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

Not yet.
But lobbing people into a drunk tank just on the dubious judgement of some quota-driven employee of a privatised company whose only incentive is profit rather than a sense of civic responsibility would be possibly one step on the road you suggest.

To be constitutionally compliant, arrest would have to be done by the police so, basically, what is being suggested is that the police contract-out the transport and containment.

Quite how that is an improvement over the current situation, I don't see.

Would they have to be arrested though ?

To be detained yes, but there are already initiatives (as seen occasionally on TV) where specialist NHS-provided units are set up in temporary units in town centres so that the dangerously intoxicated (dangerous to their well being/life) are cared for and taken off the streets until sober.

Currently I'm assuming that those NHS units are funded by the NHS Trust concerned and they see a benefit in keeping their Casualty Depts free of drunkards and their ambulance staff are able to spend less time ferrying drunks around.

But if you could only find a way to simply ferry those drunks to a medical facility like that "in the interest of their own own safety and well being", and then charge them for it without the need for arrest then that would be a nice little earner for a private health provider wouldn't it ?

Probably led by a former chief constable of course.

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:47 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Would they have to be arrested though ?...

Well, if they agree to accompany a non-policeman to the tank, then no they wouldn't.
But, if they took exception at being invited into a vehicle by some jobsworth-heavy and were bundled-in anyway, I'd call that kidnapping.
Constitutional slippery-slope, that.

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:03 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Well, if they agree to accompany a non-policeman to the tank, then no they wouldn't.
But, if they took exception at being invited into a vehicle by some jobsworth-heavy and were bundled-in anyway, I'd call that kidnapping.
Constitutional slippery-slope, that.

Nah,

If there is money in it somewhere then there will be a qualification invented for "duty of care providers for drunk people" or similar, a fancy badge and a hi-viz vest and bobs your uncle.

If I'd told you twenty years ago that a pub could have a badged heavy on the door who would be allowed to prevent, by force if necessary, your entry to the premises then you'd have laughed.

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:01 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Nah,

If I'd told you twenty years ago that a pub could have a badged heavy on the door who would be allowed to prevent, by force if necessary, your entry to the premises then you'd have laughed.

Pubs had such people on the doors alot more than 20 years ago - albeit without a badge. So, I'm not sure of your point.

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:36 pm  

Dally wrote:

Pubs had such people on the doors alot more than 20 years ago - albeit without a badge. So, I'm not sure of your point.

Well you must have lived in a dodgy area, pubs oop north didn't (clubs did, not pubs).

Along with not drinking in pubs with flat roofs, they have to pass the "doorman or not" test for me, a pub that needs a knucklehead on the door to arbitrate on its clients is not for me thank you.

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:01 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

... Along with not drinking in pubs with flat roofs, they have to pass the "doorman or not" test for me, a pub that needs a knucklehead on the door to arbitrate on its clients is not for me thank you.

The two main tests of the many with which I heartily concur and employ myself.

But bouncers stopping you from going in is a bit different from kidnapping you, taking you somewhere else and locking you up until the ransom is paid.
I'm not saying that some fudged-up rule wouldn't be introduced to try to allow it but, to me, it would be another inch down that route of erosion of constitutional rights.

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:10 pm  

I think the problem is cultural.

Been living in Germany for 2 years now. Out on the town most weekends. Yet to see a fight or any sort of real trouble.

Was at an Oktoberfest event on Saturday. Over 1,000 people in the venue, beer free flowing and no problems whatsoever, not even the slightest whiff of aggro or possible violence. Everyone having a great time. Friendly atmosphere.

The average British city / town is a complete disaster zone after about 9pm on Fridays and Saturdays. Fighting, people throwing up, people incapable through alcohol, anti-social behaviour well into the early hours etc...

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:21 pm  

The Video Ref wrote:

The average British city / town is a complete disaster zone after about 9pm on Fridays and Saturdays. Fighting, people throwing up, people incapable through alcohol, anti-social behaviour well into the early hours etc...

I go out to various towns in the North West near enough every weeked and I think the way you have described it is way over the top.

Re: How to deal with drunks? : Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:14 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Well you must have lived in a dodgy area, pubs oop north didn't (clubs did, not pubs).

Along with not drinking in pubs with flat roofs, they have to pass the "doorman or not" test for me, a pub that needs a knucklehead on the door to arbitrate on its clients is not for me thank you.

The sort of pubs I'm talking about were those that the bouncers didn't let you enter if you wore trainers. They let some serious headcases in though if they wore ordinary shoes!