Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:28 am  

Mintball wrote:

We do this anyway, in a number of ways. As you mention yourself, through taxes, but also through road laws (which regulate how fast you can drive, for instance) and through rules on things like contraband tobacco and alcohol, which are enforced by trading standards and which can protect not only your health but your pocket (some of the stuff they find and confiscate are not just dangerous, but they also work to stop landlords watering drinks or replacing brand names with inferior – and cheaper – products while charging you the same). That's all regulation.

Indeed, if regulatory powers and resources had not been diminished in recent years, the horse meat fiasco might not have happened or might have been detected earlier.

Partly because someone else has paid in so that you have been able to benefit on health, education etc.

And people who smoke/ drink pay for that from the tax added into it.

And if your paying your own private health insurance and for private schooling how has anybody else contributed to me or any future children i may have?

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:32 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

So basically its the idea that part of your UK tax bill (do you pay UK tax ?) goes to educate someone else's child that you don't like ?

The only thing you're missing here is that educating children is beneficial to all of us, childless or not, because an educated workforce is a valuable workforce and a valuable workforce paying lots of tax is going to support me in my dotage soon.

Thats why I'm happy now to pay for someone else's child to be educated especially as mine went through the system unbilled (and during that time I would have been one of the ones asked to contribute, maybe not now, but those were the good times).

No i don't pay taxes in the UK as i don't live there any more but before that yes i did. And why should what i earn provide for some else family? Guess what i don't have children at the moment, i would like to but i can't afford them. And come of it anybody who has been to public school know majority of those children don't bother to use the education they receive.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:34 am  

Dally wrote:

It's rather like large companies saying they shouldn't pay corporation tax but then moaning about lack of publicly funded infra-structure. If they legitimately don't pay corporation tax here despite making large profits here then they should pay for their own infra-structure!

The way to deal with the likes of Amazon is two-fold:

1. Make them pay "business rates" based on a percentage of turnover (already being talked about) as they have an unfair advantage over high street retailers due to market distortions caused by tax and they are not as socially useful; AND
2. Given the millions of delivery journey's that they generate (bad for the environment, clogging up our roads, etc) add a levy of at least £1 per delivery onto them - to help offset their detrimental activity.

I agree you should pay for what affects that you cause. Thats not what i was saying at all, if you have children you should expect to pay for them and not have things provide for you.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:35 am  

dubairl wrote:

And people who smoke/ drink pay for that from the tax added into it.

It seems that you're now agreeing that it is not "impossible to regulate small things such as Alcohol, smoking, transport". That seems to contradict your previous comment.

dubairl wrote:

And if your paying your own private health insurance and for private schooling how has anybody else contributed to me or any future children i may have?

You simply need to make sure that, for instance, not one of your nurses or doctors has in any way benefited from state education, say. Or that the private ambulance that drove you to your private hospital didn't go down any public roads paid for by the taxpayer. Or that the road in question wasn't designed by an engineer who was educated in a state school.

Or that your child's teacher was not educated in a state school or saved from certain death by an NHS doctor.

That sort of thing.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:44 am  

dubairl wrote:

it would be impossible to regulate small things such as Alcohol, smoking, transport (you would technically be counted as a problem of congestion so i would still expect to be charged for transport). Even if your not a regular smoker/drinker who's to say you won't do it occasionally? Even tho the amount of tax payable on such items should cover any future costs.

And yes you have paid your way why should you expect to pay for some one else's child?

as i said the pension idea it is impossible to predict your future circumstances so i would still expect to pay your part for that and if you don't need a state pension then at least you had a safety net.

Who paid for your education?

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:59 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Who paid for your education?

my parents. As i will for my children eventually.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:03 am  

dubairl wrote:

No i don't pay taxes in the UK as i don't live there any more but before that yes i did. And why should what i earn provide for some else family? Guess what i don't have children at the moment, i would like to but i can't afford them. And come of it anybody who has been to public school know majority of those children don't bother to use the education they receive.

Well clearly you live in a country of your choice where such things don't matter, good luck to you and I hope that one day you can "afford" to have children and can afford to educate them in the country that you live in.

I too thought the way that you think, its what made me vote for Thatcher's regime change in the 1970s and 80s, the idea that I could control my own destiny and maybe pay a bit less tax and yes, her regime made those things possible.

It was only with the benefit of years more experience in life that I realised that no person can be independent, it will never be possible for you to "afford" children if you sit down and spreadsheet them, nor will you ever earn enough money to educate them, nor will you ever earn enough money to provide independent healthcare for you and your family and finally, even after doing all of that, you will never have enough money left to invest in a pension to provide for yourself entirely at the end of your working life.

That is a reality check.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:06 am  

Mintball wrote:

It seems that you're now agreeing that it is not "impossible to regulate small things such as Alcohol, smoking, transport". That seems to contradict your previous comment.

You simply need to make sure that, for instance, not one of your nurses or doctors has in any way benefited from state education, say. Or that the private ambulance that drove you to your private hospital didn't go down any public roads paid for by the taxpayer. Or that the road in question wasn't designed by an engineer who was educated in a state school.

Or that your child's teacher was not educated in a state school or saved from certain death by an NHS doctor.

That sort of thing.

So have i stopped paying council tax and has this private hospital stopped paying road tax for its ambulances? Am i saying that you just stop paying taxes? No. What i am saying is you should have tax breaks if you provide for your self with Private educations and health insurance. Its not like i am saying i should pay for road maintenance, police force and fire brigade. These NHS doctors you speak of will pay the system back there selves not people who don't depend on that system.

Main Reason i love Dubai, I work and get paid and its up to me how i spend that money. If i don't have medical insurances and i break my leg In ski Dubai i will be facing a very big medical bill. If i decided i want children I then pay for the Health insurance and Schooling fees why should i expect another parent to pay for my kids? If i want a pension when i grow old i have to provide it my self. If i don't provide for my self here i can't live here.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:15 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Well clearly you live in a country of your choice where such things don't matter, good luck to you and I hope that one day you can "afford" to have children and can afford to educate them in the country that you live in.

I too thought the way that you think, its what made me vote for Thatcher's regime change in the 1970s and 80s, the idea that I could control my own destiny and maybe pay a bit less tax and yes, her regime made those things possible.

It was only with the benefit of years more experience in life that I realised that no person can be independent, it will never be possible for you to "afford" children if you sit down and spreadsheet them, nor will you ever earn enough money to educate them, nor will you ever earn enough money to provide independent healthcare for you and your family and finally, even after doing all of that, you will never have enough money left to invest in a pension to provide for yourself entirely at the end of your working life.

That is a reality check.

That is my sole aim at the moment to set my self up so i can provide for my future family. I wish i could afford all of this right away with out the hard work but i can't and i really wished i was going to watch Wigan in Sydney but right now saving for my upcoming marriage is more important.

But in reality you can as have my parents for my brother. He was practically born here and studied all his life here he is now off to uni this summer but they have payed for absolutely everything for him, from health care, dental and education. I know Unfortunately not everybody has the same circumstances and people do need help and support and those are the people who will still pay tax for that system and in turn it will help others after them.

Im not saying people shouldn't pay tax at all but what i am saying is the people who also provide for them selves and don't depend on the NHS and public schools should receive some kind of benefit from it. Everybody has different opinions of course thats just mine. I have see two complete opposite sides of the system from living in wigan and now Dubai and i much prefer the one i am in right now, even if it means i can't have what i want right now.

Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:31 am  

dubairl wrote:

That is my sole aim at the moment to set my self up so i can provide for my future family. I wish i could afford all of this right away with out the hard work but i can't and i really wished i was going to watch Wigan in Sydney but right now saving for my upcoming marriage is more important.

But in reality you can as have my parents for my brother. He was practically born here and studied all his life here he is now off to uni this summer but they have payed for absolutely everything for him, from health care, dental and education. I know Unfortunately not everybody has the same circumstances and people do need help and support and those are the people who will still pay tax for that system and in turn it will help others after them.

Im not saying people shouldn't pay tax at all but what i am saying is the people who also provide for them selves and don't depend on the NHS and public schools should receive some kind of benefit from it. Everybody has different opinions of course thats just mine. I have see two complete opposite sides of the system from living in wigan and now Dubai and i much prefer the one i am in right now, even if it means i can't have what i want right now.

I suspect that its worked for you and your parents because you are both able to earn significantly more than what is considered to be the average wage here in the UK (£26,664 - 2013, ONS) because even on that average times two full time earners in the family you'd be well short of the proposal to charge for education at £80,000.

The reality is that anyone earning an average wage in the UK (and there are many on less than £12k), you will not earn sufficient to pay for health insurance or education, or to put anything aside for a pension.

National Insurance is what it suggests, it the insurance scheme that (originally) pays for your healthcare and pension and none of us should ever lose sight of that fact - we are in effect already doing what you suggest and have been since 1948.