Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:25 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

... Aaron adler who was 18 when he drove drunk and killed a grandfather and grandson, got a sentence of 42 years to think about what he'd done. That was in america. Just digest that for a second, 42 YEARS.

You want us to copy that hugely successful (irony alert) system?

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:24 pm  

Politicians make the law!

Sadly the judiciary have to apply it.

Says it all really

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:45 pm  

Him wrote:

Yeah we should work the doctors as much as possible. Tiredness isn't an issue here.

Just because one sector of the economy gets away with sh|tting on employees doesn't mean this should be extended everywhere.

A little off topic I know, but I'd advocate us going back to the weekend actually being a time when people can spend time with their families, not a workday.

Perhaps you'd like half day closing on a Wednesday as well? Whilst you ponder the good old days, and those beastly conniving Union Officials who sold out your Birthright, look up ROTA. That should explain where you're going wrong re the doctors.

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:51 pm  

Mintball wrote:

You want us to copy that hugely successful (irony alert) system?

Yes. A drunken scrote locked up for 42 years as opposed to 4 means the roads and general population are a lot safer by a factor of 10.

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:56 pm  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Yes. A drunken scrote locked up for 42 years as opposed to 4 means the roads and general population are a lot safer by a factor of 10.

If you're happy to pay for him to be locked up for 42 years, go for it.

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:28 pm  

Chris28 wrote: It was the implication that machinery stands idle at the weekend I was taking issue with. I've heard about the correlation you mention and can understand it tbh but it was the other bit of the post I was meaning Unfortunately, not just very expensive equipment stands idle at the weekend, so does entire operating theatres. It is good to see that Prof Bruce Keogh, and many Doctors to be fair, has recognised there is a long overdue need for working practices to change. In your case, Doctor Rumples proscribes; READ....inwardly digest....repeat until you understand....with attention being focussed on the final two paragraphs. The prognosis for enlightenment is mildly encouraging......

Chris28 wrote: It was the implication that machinery stands idle at the weekend I was taking issue with. I've heard about the correlation you mention and can understand it tbh but it was the other bit of the post I was meaning Unfortunately, not just very expensive equipment stands idle at the weekend, so does entire operating theatres. It is good to see that Prof Bruce Keogh, and many Doctors to be fair, has recognised there is a long overdue need for working practices to change. In your case, Doctor Rumples proscribes; READ....inwardly digest....repeat until you understand....with attention being focussed on the final two paragraphs. The prognosis for enlightenment is mildly encouraging......

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:54 pm  

I think the fact that hospitals basically don't do doctors at a weekend is a true scandal.

But I don't see anyone persuading consultants to start doing routine operations on night shifts on a regular basis. You may sneer and diss them for that, but I express no opinion at all, save to say that it just ain't gonna happen any time soon.

A consultant does what he is obliged to do under his NHS contract, and then he goes off to earn some serious money in his private work, you know, private ops, consultations, medical reports etc. If you are going to oblige him to work nights say one week in three then he plainly cannot work in his private business that week and again, for just that reason, it can't be done.

Also if you are going to operate theatres for an extra 100 hours per week, where the feck is the money to do that coming from?

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:13 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Do a Google search for "The Bench Book", its publicly available on several different sites and is a Magistrates Guide to Sentencing - its not quite the same level of court that these two cases may have been tried in but have a read through even some of it and you will get a much better idea of where the sentences come from.

The bottom line is that any sentence is not just dreamed up out of thin air and most offences have a range of punishments that can be given and more importantly usually have several points to take into consideration when deciding the severity of the sentence.

Its not bedtime reading but its interesting never the less.

I am aware there are guidelines to follow, but to my mind the guidelines must be awry to result in sometimes lax and seemingly inconsistent sentences.

It's not just the sentencing. Someone who is jailed and later found to be innocent have no help from the system when they are let go in the same way a convicted fellon get's a parole officer, accomodation and help adjusting to life. The innocent person then get's slapped with a nice hefty bill for their board whilst in jail, whoever legislated that is frankly evil.

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:20 pm  

Mintball wrote:

You want us to copy that hugely successful (irony alert) system?

What I was highlighting with that example is the disparity between the two. How one justice system appears much tougher on sentencing.

Both acted recklessly, both caused a road traffic accident resulting in death. One caused one death, the other caused two. You can't really quantify the difference between the 2 incidents and the extra fatality in terms of years in jail. The simple point is, someone who acts recklessly and causes a fatality should be serving much longer than 5 years in jail. That's the bottom line.

Re: British justice - Where is consistency and common sense? : Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:39 pm  

Can't we have a system like Iran or Saudi Arabia?