Re: Another Death Row inmate freed : Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:14 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

... DNA evidence would not have helped one jot in either of those cases.

I think that this is a really crucial point.

Because you'd still have to rely on complete honestly in the system simply to ensure that any DNA evidence was correct. And we have enough evidence that the police cannot always be relied on to be completely impartial and honest to know that this could not be guaranteed to be the case – let alone other elements of the judicial system.

BobbyD wrote:

The state shouldn't overtly kill it's citizens, even the blokes who killed Lee Rigby ...

One of things I rather liked (if you can call it that) about that case was that they wanted to die – they wanted 'martyrdom'. They didn't get what they wanted. Instead, they arguably got the system working at its most transparent and best, which in its own way was a victory for the culture that they would almost certainly want to change.

On a slightly different note, I suspect that most people would baulk at the idea, for instance, of stoning someone to death, whatever their crime. Yet there is something so utterly perverse, then, in people spending time to work out what becomes a morally acceptable way to carry out an execution in a western society.

But if you remove the semantics of the method of execution, what philosophical difference is there between a non-Islamic state that executes prisoners (for whatever crime) and an Islamic one (Saudi Arabia, for instance) that executes people on the basis of its ideas of religious laws?

Re: Another Death Row inmate freed : Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:07 pm  

Mintball wrote:

I think that this is a really crucial point.

Because you'd still have to rely on complete honestly in the system simply to ensure that any DNA evidence was correct. And we have enough evidence that the police cannot always be relied on to be completely impartial and honest to know that this could not be guaranteed to be the case – let alone other elements of the judicial system.

In the Derek Bentley case DNA would be irrelevant because the murder was witnessed by police officers who had Bentley already in their custody - its an interesting argument that you can then go on to murder someone when you are already under arrest even before you bring his mental age into it.

The death sentence really was used as retribution back then and had nothing to do with deterrent at all - nor would it be if it were ever to be re-introduced.

Re: Another Death Row inmate freed : Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:35 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

In the Derek Bentley case DNA would be irrelevant because the murder was witnessed by police officers who had Bentley already in their custody - its an interesting argument that you can then go on to murder someone when you are already under arrest even before you bring his mental age into it.

The death sentence really was used as retribution back then and had nothing to do with deterrent at all - nor would it be if it were ever to be re-introduced.

Totally agree.

Re: Another Death Row inmate freed : Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:40 pm  

BrisbaneRhino wrote: Yet another death row inmate has been freed after "new" evidence was turned up showing he was innocent (of murder at least) all along. Yet again, we see similar causes for the original verdict - shoddy defence work and quite likely a degree of racial bias in the prosecution and jury. The shoddy defence and simple unwillingness of police and prosectors to change their views once they have decided someone is guilty are depressingly familiar in these stories. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/us/lo ... ?hpt=hp_t4 Regardless of views on the rights and wrongs of the death penalty being applied to those everybody "knows" to be guilty/evil, surely these blatant miscarriages of justice highlight why the death penalty simply shouldn't be used. There's an article linked to the above report where a death penalty advocate argues for the firing squad instead of lethal injection, and argues this is a fit punishment for the worst of the worst. Completely missing the point that in some cases the "worst of the worst" are in fact completely innocent. Worst case I've ever seen was roy michael roberts. Guy was wrongly convicted of armed robbery. Served out his sentence, weeks before he was due for release there was prison riot and officer was stabbed and killed. Roberts was then wrongfully convicted of this and sentenced to death! Exceuted march 10 1999 by lethal injection.

BrisbaneRhino wrote: Yet another death row inmate has been freed after "new" evidence was turned up showing he was innocent (of murder at least) all along. Yet again, we see similar causes for the original verdict - shoddy defence work and quite likely a degree of racial bias in the prosecution and jury. The shoddy defence and simple unwillingness of police and prosectors to change their views once they have decided someone is guilty are depressingly familiar in these stories. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/11/us/lo ... ?hpt=hp_t4 Regardless of views on the rights and wrongs of the death penalty being applied to those everybody "knows" to be guilty/evil, surely these blatant miscarriages of justice highlight why the death penalty simply shouldn't be used. There's an article linked to the above report where a death penalty advocate argues for the firing squad instead of lethal injection, and argues this is a fit punishment for the worst of the worst. Completely missing the point that in some cases the "worst of the worst" are in fact completely innocent. Worst case I've ever seen was roy michael roberts. Guy was wrongly convicted of armed robbery. Served out his sentence, weeks before he was due for release there was prison riot and officer was stabbed and killed. Roberts was then wrongfully convicted of this and sentenced to death! Exceuted march 10 1999 by lethal injection.

Re: Another Death Row inmate freed : Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:46 pm  

DaveO wrote:

We as a society can afford to lock the few people required to be locked up for life to ensure innocent people like the Birmingham Six are not executed wrongly.

It is the price of justice.

No idea why no one gets this.

F*cking A.

Re: Another Death Row inmate freed : Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:30 pm  

Didn't the Lee Rigby killers run at armed police officers in the hope that they would be shot and killed, it's hardly a punishment if it's something they actively aimed for.

Personally I've always felt like the prisoners who would be eligible(for want of a better word) for execution should be thrown in a bare cell, mattress and a toilet for 23 hours a day, only given water to drink and the cheapest food that meets the minimum nutritional standard.

A true punishment and if there was a miscarriage of justice at least they're alive.