Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:38 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

But Thatcher wasn't going to close all them pits didn't you know?
It's all Scargill's fault that the UK mining industry is deceased, apparently.

No, there was only ever a dozen pits marked for closure, all that bother over a dozen exhausted pits.

Until the truth came out of course.

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:03 pm  

Dally wrote:

Seemed a very decent, principled man. The product of a good, Protestant upbringing.

Because we are members of the Protestant Reformed Church, which successfully challenged the autocratic power of the Papacy in the mid-sixteenth century, we can wear little rubber devices to prevent issue.

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:54 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

No that load of old fanny again?

Whenever right-wingers want to excuse Thatcher's anhialation of the mining industry, they always bring up the fact that Wilson closed more pits. They also conveniently forget to mention that the NUM, however reluctantly, went along with the closures because they accepted the argument that the pits earmarked for closure were exhausted. They also worked with the Labout government of the day to ensure as many miners as possible were redeployed in other, productive pits.

169,000 people thrown on the scrap heap by Wilson and the ensuing silence from "Quisling" Benn.

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:24 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

169,000 people thrown on the scrap heap by Wilson and the ensuing silence from "Quisling" Benn.

Anything to back that figure up?

Strangely enough, there wasn't much of a murmur from the NUM either. I lived through that era, I don't have to rely on bollox soundbites from right-wingers

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:15 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Anything to back that figure up?

Strangely enough, there wasn't much of a murmur from the NUM either. I lived through that era, I don't have to rely on bollox soundbites from right-wingers

As I recall, you're from Hull. That's hardly living la Dolce Vita at the best of times, so just what it must have been like in the era of 3 day weeks, power cuts, weekly strikes and the Winter of Discontent with fridge trucks being used to store the unburied dead etc etc does stretch the term living a fair old bit. Perhaps the disappointment of such an existence is responsible for your attitude today?

In any case, the NUM were the architects of their own destiny, and more fool them for the outcome to their year long strike. A strike called without a ballot of the members as I recall.

Oh, and all those gormless folk squacking that Margaret Thatcher lied about the amount of pits which were earmarked for closure. Since when has any General in history, ever published a comprehensive list of targets and numbers prior to a battle? Deception is an essential and powerful weapon in any conflict. Thatcher's aims were not only to defeat Scargill, but to humiliate the entire NUM, and by extension other militants, so that once and for all, the UK was rid of these particular Union bully boys. It was Game, Set and Match to the grocer's daughter when the dust settled.

The only miners I have any sympathy for were the guys in Nottinghamshire who saw through Scargill's little game , and set up their own Union. Unfortunately for them, they were shafted by the leader in traditional nose in the trough style a few years later.

The Old Girl must be sniggering up there on her cloud that you lot are still bitching 30 years on.....

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:12 pm  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

As I recall, you're from Hull. That's hardly living la Dolce Vita at the best of times, so just what it must have been like in the era of 3 day weeks, power cuts, weekly strikes and the Winter of Discontent with fridge trucks being used to store the unburied dead etc etc does stretch the term living a fair old bit. Perhaps the disappointment of such an existence is responsible for your attitude today?

In any case, the NUM were the architects of their own destiny, and more fool them for the outcome to their year long strike. A strike called without a ballot of the members as I recall.

Oh, and all those gormless folk squacking that Margaret Thatcher lied about the amount of pits which were earmarked for closure. Since when has any General in history, ever published a comprehensive list of targets and numbers prior to a battle? Deception is an essential and powerful weapon in any conflict. Thatcher's aims were not only to defeat Scargill, but to humiliate the entire NUM, and by extension other militants, so that once and for all, the UK was rid of these particular Union bully boys. It was Game, Set and Match to the grocer's daughter when the dust settled.

The only miners I have any sympathy for were the guys in Nottinghamshire who saw through Scargill's little game , and set up their own Union. Unfortunately for them, they were shafted by the leader in traditional nose in the trough style a few years later.

The Old Girl must be sniggering up there on her cloud that you lot are still bitching 30 years on.....

LOL.

Now give us your real opinion.

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:55 pm  

Visiting a political thread on The Sin Bin is what I imagine it's like to be a fly on the wall in a dementia hospital.

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:11 pm  

rover49 wrote:

Met him once at a Militant rally in Sheffield in the 80's, very humble and very committed to his beliefs. I have met several politicians in my life, both Tory and Labour and found Tony Benn by far the most interesting. When I met him he was in the company of Dave Nellist and Pat Wall, another two honest politicians who put the electorate first and themselves last.

RIP Tony.

The death of Tony Benn is a terrible loss to all who admire honour, humanitarianism and fairness in a human being. Which should be everybody, but so sadly isn't, thus reinforcing why such rare and precious jewels as he are so crucial to fight our corner for us. I hate all but a handful of politicians, as now they increasingly stand for nothing but themselves and their own advancement, but I have no hesitation in going as far as saying I loved Anthony Wedgwood Benn. RIP Tony, and rejoin your beloved Caroline.

He was one of the people who drew me into politics, which was why I too was at that Militant rally, rover49, graced by his presence. Did you go to many such events, if so, I wonder if I know you? The Albert Hall one was probably the coup d'etat with the working classes demonstrating their manufacturing and engineering skills via the plethora of skillfully diverse paper planes sent spiralling downwards from the uppers tiers of the Hall.

[DaveO]

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:20 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Oh, and all those gormless folk squacking that Margaret Thatcher lied about the amount of pits which were earmarked for closure. Since when has any General in history, ever published a comprehensive list of targets and numbers prior to a battle? Deception is an essential and powerful weapon in any conflict.

You really think it is acceptable for a government to lie to the people to this degree? If the information had come out that the government was lying it would have been political dynamite because it wasn't a General trying to deceive the enemy as you would have it but a politician lying to the people. There is a huge difference and if you think it is OK you must want to live in a dictatorship where the government just lies to you all the time.

She was bloody lucky we weren't in the Information age we now live in or I doubt the deceit would have lasted five minutes.

Thatcher's aims were not only to defeat Scargill, but to humiliate the entire NUM, and by extension other militants, so that once and for all, the UK was rid of these particular Union bully boys. It was Game, Set and Match to the grocer's daughter when the dust settled.

So you think despite the biggest economic crisis since the 1920's the fact the Tories could not win the general election in 2010 due in no small measure to them being toast in large parts of the former mining areas is game, set and match?

Believe it or not people in these areas did used to vote Tory in enough numbers to get some Tory MP's elected every now and again but now the Tories may as well be aliens in certain parts of the country and it all started with how they dealt with the miners. Making your party unelectable is no victory.

Re: TONY BENN DEAD : Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:22 am  

cod'ead wrote: Anything to back that figure up? Strangely enough, there wasn't much of a murmur from the NUM either. I lived through that era, I don't have to rely on bollox soundbites from right-wingers http://www.ncm.org.uk/docs/collections- ... f?sfvrsn=2 Of course you wouldn't hear a murmur from the NUM, when you're compliant with destruction you hardly shout from the rooftops. Still, "Quisling" Benn did ok, promotion in the cabinet under a man who destroyed communities. They make his speeches in the house where he talks about how the miners (amongst others) built the country even more laughable. Yet another professional class warrior full of "bollox soundbites". If I were Bob Crow, I wouldn't want my name linked with this charlatan.

cod'ead wrote: Anything to back that figure up? Strangely enough, there wasn't much of a murmur from the NUM either. I lived through that era, I don't have to rely on bollox soundbites from right-wingers http://www.ncm.org.uk/docs/collections- ... f?sfvrsn=2 Of course you wouldn't hear a murmur from the NUM, when you're compliant with destruction you hardly shout from the rooftops. Still, "Quisling" Benn did ok, promotion in the cabinet under a man who destroyed communities. They make his speeches in the house where he talks about how the miners (amongst others) built the country even more laughable. Yet another professional class warrior full of "bollox soundbites". If I were Bob Crow, I wouldn't want my name linked with this charlatan.