Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:26 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I am talking about Pakistani men abusing Pakistani girls - not much chance of that happening - the community would soon sort that out without the need for police intervention

It depends on your definition of abuse. At the docs recently I was sat there when a Pakistani woman came in followed by 3 more. All were wearing the full length full-face black monty. Tiny slit for eyes. From their assortment of sizes I would guess the 3 girls were aged something like 10 - 15. They were being registered at the practice as it has an Asian female GP.

These girls have been brainwashed into that particular extreme brand of religion and their lives are dominated by living under the strictest regime, they will have no real contact with British society, and men will rule everything they ever do, say or think. We have had the religious freedom debate many times over but these kids have had no choice whatsoever in the matter and now it is too late for them. Of course supporters of their flavour of religion will say that is how everyone MUST live their life and everyone else is wrong but for these girls there was never any choice nor ever will be. This includes strictures on how marriage is imposed on them and how they must basically submit to the wishes of men.

Is this child abuse? Under UK law, seemingly not.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:51 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

It depends on your definition of abuse. At the docs recently I was sat there when a Pakistani woman came in followed by 3 more. All were wearing the full length full-face black monty. Tiny slit for eyes. From their assortment of sizes I would guess the 3 girls were aged something like 10 - 15. They were being registered at the practice as it has an Asian female GP.

These girls have been brainwashed into that particular extreme brand of religion and their lives are dominated by living under the strictest regime, they will have no real contact with British society, and men will rule everything they ever do, say or think. We have had the religious freedom debate many times over but these kids have had no choice whatsoever in the matter and now it is too late for them. Of course supporters of their flavour of religion will say that is how everyone MUST live their life and everyone else is wrong but for these girls there was never any choice nor ever will be. This includes strictures on how marriage is imposed on them and how they must basically submit to the wishes of men.

Is this child abuse? Under UK law, seemingly not.

Well said ... I feel the same.
But nobody will confront it ... they daren't for so many reasons.

[Bullseye]

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:37 am  

I think the amount of attention given to the role of race in the lack of adequate response to these crimes is out of proportion.

I would suggest that other forces were also playing a part in the failure of social care and police and it shouldn't be laid purely at the door of political correctness or fear of being labelled racist.

Poor leadership, complicated chains of command, complacency, prejudice and lack of professionalism all played part.

Blaming it on multiculturalism would be a disservice to the victims. All lessons need to be learned otherwise this will just become another report that wasn't acted upon.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:54 am  

The police commissioner is being a little stubborn - he should have done the honourable thing as soon as this story got air time. Other than the money I can't see why he is hanging on?

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:57 am  

Rotherham council proved they could act fast when they removed foster children from UKIP supporting foster parents on the basis that the parents' political views were at odds with those deemed suitable by the council.

This case is a total disgrace to this country and yet still there are attempts to play down the ethnic angle especially by the BBC who have gone out of their way to avoid discussing it. Anyone directly involved either at the council or the police who knew about the abuse but failed to act should be sacked immediately and feel themselves lucky that they are not facing criminal charges.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:29 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I think the amount of attention given to the role of race in the lack of adequate response to these crimes is out of proportion.

I would suggest that other forces were also playing a part in the failure of social care and police and it shouldn't be laid purely at the door of political correctness or fear of being labelled racist.

Poor leadership, complicated chains of command, complacency, prejudice and lack of professionalism all played part.

Blaming it on multiculturalism would be a disservice to the victims. All lessons need to be learned otherwise this will just become another report that wasn't acted upon.

When I was a magistrate the most frustrating aspect of the role was dealing with kids from care homes. They'd get into trouble after being out all night with their "boyfriends"or in the case of the boys, lads that were a few years older. When you asked why that was allowed, why the "boyfriend" wasn't in court, the answer was just a shrug of the shoulders and "What can you do?"

The situation was then compounded as kids would be brought to court for the sort of petty offenses that probably happen thousands of times every night amongst squabbling siblings in family homes without the police being called. On the grounds that "Its the only way we can discipline them". We did make a concerted effort to get the CPS to stop bringing these prosecutions which had some success, but you did often think that the old fashioned option of a clip round the ear might have been more in their interests.

I know there are some terrible, abusive parents that should never be allowed to "raise" children. But putting them into "care" homes often seems to be just as bad.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:03 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The police commissioner is being a little stubborn - he should have done the honourable thing as soon as this story got air time. Other than the money I can't see why he is hanging on?

Possibly the name Sharon Shoesmith might be on his mind ?

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:16 pm  

From my reading of the report I thought he was praised for bringing in improvements since he's taken over at the top. I might be wrong though as that wasn't the main reason that I read through most of the report.

I trust that all the people who are calling for his head have actually read the report and they are demanding his sacking based on his failings, and not the fact he's just at the top when the report was published.

I doubt it though.

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:22 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

From my reading of the report I thought he was praised for bringing in improvements since he's taken over at the top. I might be wrong though as that wasn't the main reason that I read through most of the report.

I trust that all the people who are calling for his head have actually read the report and they are demanding his sacking based on his failings, and not the fact he's just at the top when the report was published.

I doubt it though.

It has nothing to do with him being the current PCC, that's just the job he currently holds. It has everything to do with the fact that prior to becoming PCC he was the head of Child Services at the council while all of this was going on !

Re: Rotherham : Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:52 pm  

I'm sure there was an element of the Council/police/social workers etc being nervous of the racial side of it but I think a bigger factor is that these children are generally from poor backgrounds and often from households lacking decent parenting or, as in the case of a girl shown by Look North, girls who have been abandoned by their parents.

To start with it means there isn't anyone there to check up on these girls or be concerned about anything. For instance, I know I'd have gone berserk had my 14 year old daughter been going out with a 24 year old who's just come out of prison. And there is no way I'd have been allowing her out on a night with this bloke.

Also, as they're from poor backgrounds, they often aren't as eloquent in expressing any concerns to social workers or when making a complaint to police. So, coupled with no parents to kick up a fuss, it's much easier for social services and the police to ignore the problem.

Then, as LGJM says, add in the chav/scummer factor along with cuts to council services and a ridiculous target culture in the public sector and to be honest it's no suprise things like this happen.