Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:34 pm  

Ajw71 wrote:

Lol yes because even if that did happen it would be totally comparable to the Holocaust.

Seriously.....wtf.

So anyway, what makes you deny that political divide and rule exists and why did you compare it to the holocaust ?

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:21 am  

Quite a leap going on to compare contemporary events with 1930's Germany.

Western media were speculating of a possible extermination of Jewry as early as 1933. World nations met at Evian discussing how to solve Germany's Jewish Question in 1938 and both Hitler and Goering openly spoke of exterminating Jews should 'they' cause another world war.

What's happening today isn't right but it's hardly state coercion and sponsorship of racist ideology either. I think we're unlikely to see Cameron/Obama etc authorise the murders of women and children. I'd be shocked to see an entire systematic bureaucracy created under the eyes of a biological fiend with the sole aim of exterminating an entire people. Let's remember that in Eastern Europe, between 50 and 90% of every nation's Jews were lost.

One final thing. We aren't likely to see a Tory manifesto include anything like a 'Final Solution', in exactly the same manner you didn't find a Nazi one including it. The Germans decided on the Final Solution some time between summer 1941 and early 1942. No records exist of the decision being taken and historians still quibble over it today.

Having said that, it was a one off. Perhaps the most deplorable event in history. The world knew of its possibility pre-war, the Germans never hid their antisemitism and still nothing was done. Many horrific things have happened in time but comparing to that is a stretch in my view.

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:18 am  

Again, you're taking the extreme stance on how politicians work the media and the general public today, they don't have an agenda to exterminate millions of citizens of course, but they do have an agenda to alienate hundreds of thousands of them by use of a compliant media driven message using phrases such as "scroungers and shirkers" and I've even seen a quote attributed to IDS (no link so no hard proof) that "Work actually helps free people" when he was speaking of his Workfare program but which is rather similar to one which I recall from somewhere else.

When you try to deflect blame from the causes of the 2007 world financial collapse towards the poor, unemployed, sick and disabled and your media outlets follow your party line compliantly (and stick to it without question for five years) THEN you will draw comparison to the 1930s - note, no-one has drawn comparison to the 1940s, other than the two of you.

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:37 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Again, you're taking the extreme stance on how politicians work the media and the general public today, they don't have an agenda to exterminate millions of citizens of course, but they do have an agenda to alienate hundreds of thousands of them by use of a compliant media driven message using phrases such as "scroungers and shirkers" and I've even seen a quote attributed to IDS (no link so no hard proof) that "Work actually helps free people" when he was speaking of his Workfare program but which is rather similar to one which I recall from somewhere else.

When you try to deflect blame from the causes of the 2007 world financial collapse towards the poor, unemployed, sick and disabled and your media outlets follow your party line compliantly (and stick to it without question for five years) THEN you will draw comparison to the 1930s - note, no-one has drawn comparison to the 1940s, other than the two of you.

I agree that an agenda exists to 'alienate' the poorer classes in today's Britain. I just think it's a stretch to compare it to the Holocaust. The statement 'work frees people' is eerily similar to 'Arbeit Macht Frei' above the gate at Auschwitz, 'work makes you free'. I'd be amazed if IDS said that and it would be an incredibly unfortunate use of language.

The interwar period saw the rise of the far right AND far left. It's important to remember that. Certainly, the UK saw a dramatic increase in consideration for the poor. Much of the old order of Europe saw leftism as well as rightism. Largely because of a perceived failure of democracy to resolve poverty, enfranchise the peoples and ultimately, avoid war. Very different scenario to today.

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:17 am  

SLS wrote:

I'd be amazed if IDS said that and it would be an incredibly unfortunate use of language.

I wouldn't be amazed as he actually did say "Look, work actually helps free people". The interview can be found on a well known video sharing website under 'Ian Duncan Smith sorting the benefits system (27May10)'

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:25 am  

He isn't known for being diplomatic with comments, which is actually not a bad thing, I'd sooner a Minister say what he/she is actually thinking rather than be a puppet with a script to stick to and if he gets a bit quick tempered with journalists (which he does) then fine, its not a flaw rather than just his temprement, I'm sure he doesn't pursue Nazi ideology but he does have ideology's and they tend to revolve around a utopian world where 40 hour a week jobs can be found for everyone on the unemployment register and those in work no longer need to draw benefits, both elements of which are fatally flawed.

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:54 am  

SLS wrote:

I agree that an agenda exists to 'alienate' the poorer classes in today's Britain. I just think it's a stretch to compare it to the Holocaust. The statement 'work frees people' is eerily similar to 'Arbeit Macht Frei' above the gate at Auschwitz, 'work makes you free'. I'd be amazed if IDS said that and it would be an incredibly unfortunate use of language.

The interwar period saw the rise of the far right AND far left. It's important to remember that. Certainly, the UK saw a dramatic increase in consideration for the poor. Much of the old order of Europe saw leftism as well as rightism. Largely because of a perceived failure of democracy to resolve poverty, enfranchise the peoples and ultimately, avoid war. Very different scenario to today.

Be prepared to be amazed. He said it. 27th May 2010 on Breakfast TV. Plenty of stuff out there confirming exactly what he said.

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:09 am  

Compliant media

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:28 am  

46 grand a year and a new house. Big deal The Sun! Where have the 100s of billions ended up that went to bailing out the banks?

Re: Holocaust 70 years on : Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:34 am  

What is the date on that newspaper, is it from this week or does that say 2014 ?
If its this week then The Sun seem to have been fed a bollax story as the benefit cap from Oct 2014 is £500 per week max, £26K per annum to include virtually everything the family could claim for (including housing).