[Bullseye]

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 8:36 am  

Turkey has done more for migrants than any other. If it weren't for Turkey many more would be heading for Europe.

Internment may have worked in WW2 but it certainly wouldn't work now for reasons already stated. Terrorism isn't new to the UK as has already been stated. You've got more chance of being killed in a car crash than by a terrorist. People need to stop making irrational calls for the government to do something and get some perspective. Threats can be mitigated using all the methods already in place via the government's CONTEST strategy. It's already helped foil many attacks and probably prevented many others.

Making far reaching decisions on impulse immediately after an incident is usually a bad idea. Better to consider the evidence soberly and act on reason rather than instinct.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 9:27 am  

tigertot wrote:

I would suggest you change your news source.

I am more than happy with my news sources. Government and eu migrant statistics show one million three hundred thousand migrants applied for asylum in the Europe area in 2015. Germany alone over the last few years have absorbed one million migrants. Are you suggesting this human tidal wave has stopped. I have not even factored in the vast amount of migrants in camps in turkey.
I note that the Manchester bomber is from a family of Libyan refugees. He was also given the chance of higher education which he decided against. His gratitude for this humanitarian gesture was to blow up a group of sweet young and innocent children.
Certain politicians of recent years need to beg the forgiveness of the British public for creating this situation.
Just think about what we are witnessing today, armed police on the streets of Britain protecting the British population at large from attacks from its own citizens. My father fought for his country and spent years in a prison camp , to see this would break his heart.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 11:43 am  

Backwoodsman wrote:

I am more than happy with my news sources. Government and eu migrant statistics show one million three hundred thousand migrants applied for asylum in the Europe area in 2015. Germany alone over the last few years have absorbed one million migrants. Are you suggesting this human tidal wave has stopped. I have not even factored in the vast amount of migrants in camps in turkey.
I note that the Manchester bomber is from a family of Libyan refugees. He was also given the chance of higher education which he decided against. His gratitude for this humanitarian gesture was to blow up a group of sweet young and innocent children.
Certain politicians of recent years need to beg the forgiveness of the British public for creating this situation.
Just think about what we are witnessing today, armed police on the streets of Britain protecting the British population at large from attacks from its own citizens. My father fought for his country and spent years in a prison camp , to see this would break his heart.

What were your views when the IRA were carrying out bombings in England ?

Although it's not palatable, at some point there will need to be dialogue with the leaders of ISIS and their ilk to find a long term solution, assuming that there may be one.
At the moment, everyone is rightly outraged but, that wont stop a repeat of this, either in the UK or, elsewhere.
The aspect of this that disgusts me most is that it is being done in the name of religion and perhaps if the religious leaders of all faiths started preaching a slightly different message, we may actually have a better world to live in.

[Bullseye]

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 11:57 am  

I’m not sure a dialogue with so called IS would achieve anything since their aims are so incompatible with civilised values. We didn’t negotiate with the Nazis so why negotiate with so called IS? Who do they speak for? They don’t represent any population. They are a death cult.

[Bullseye]

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 11:58 am  

With long term policies to fight them and to simultaneously alleviate the conditions that brought them about they can be defeated - just like many other extremist groups in the past e.g. Kymer Rouge.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 12:17 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

What were your views when the IRA were carrying out bombings in England ?

Although it's not palatable, at some point there will need to be dialogue with the leaders of ISIS and their ilk to find a long term solution, assuming that there may be one.
At the moment, everyone is rightly outraged but, that wont stop a repeat of this, either in the UK or, elsewhere.
The aspect of this that disgusts me most is that it is being done in the name of religion and perhaps if the religious leaders of all faiths started preaching a slightly different message, we may actually have a better world to live in.

Negotiate with isis, think you would end up minus your head. The absolute stated aims of isis is to bring down western civilization by any means possible. That includes extreme violence .
Not certain why you introduce the ira into the debate. Obviously a political settlement was reached with them. A situation which is impossible with isis.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 1:45 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

You can't do that in 2017 though can you? It wouldn't work anyway. The terrorists these days use the internet mainly to spread their filth. The large corporations such as Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Facebook, Twitter, Whatsapp etc are still resisting Government snooping and protecting extremists in the name of tree hugging human rights nonsense. Until they and the ISPs start shopping people to the Police who look at naughty material, how do they ever find these people? Not all of them book flights to Syria for a training camp package holiday and come back with a new comedy name, then sign up for training visits to Belguim and sign up for an account with a chemical or fertilizer wholesaler. Not all of them (If any) visit their Mosque and boast about their desire to commit atrocities.

You talk about interning the extended families of known suspects. Totally immoral and goes against everything this country stands for. They can do their best to prevent terror, you can't eliminate it, it's not possible.

But you can do it if there is a will. We stood for greater decency at the time of WW2 and did it. Families and associates do generally know or suspect these things. Also, the criminals need to show their actions / intentions have wider consequences than just to them (after all if somebody is content to blow themselves up there is little to gain from just affecting them).

You talk about going against what we stand for. What nonsense. Terrorism has affected our everyday lives enormously - surveillance, bag checks, snooping on internet usage, army on streets, etc, etc. What would help us restore our way of life is to deal with these people harshly - remove their freedom and rights for the benefit of the vast majority. Anything else just erodes everybody's liberty over time. The only way to uphold values is to be tough on those who seek to undermine them. Nothing else can work.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 1:52 pm  

Backwoodsman wrote:

The only way to stop any further attacks is for senior muslim clerics to sort out the problem within the Muslim community.

It is not the only way. It is one strand but to believe these people are wholly influenced by clerics is naïve.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 1:54 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Turkey has done more for migrants than any other. If it weren't for Turkey many more would be heading for Europe.

Internment may have worked in WW2 but it certainly wouldn't work now for reasons already stated. Terrorism isn't new to the UK as has already been stated. You've got more chance of being killed in a car crash than by a terrorist. People need to stop making irrational calls for the government to do something and get some perspective. Threats can be mitigated using all the methods already in place via the government's CONTEST strategy. It's already helped foil many attacks and probably prevented many others.

Making far reaching decisions on impulse immediately after an incident is usually a bad idea. Better to consider the evidence soberly and act on reason rather than instinct.

I despair.

Re: Is nowhere safe? Manchester : Wed May 24, 2017 2:00 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

What were your views when the IRA were carrying out bombings in England ?

Although it's not palatable, at some point there will need to be dialogue with the leaders of ISIS and their ilk to find a long term solution, assuming that there may be one.
At the moment, everyone is rightly outraged but, that wont stop a repeat of this, either in the UK or, elsewhere.
The aspect of this that disgusts me most is that it is being done in the name of religion and perhaps if the religious leaders of all faiths started preaching a slightly different message, we may actually have a better world to live in.

Nice idea if only ISIS had a cause other than destruction of Western society.

You have on the simplest solution though. Offer 'ISIS' (whatever it is) a tract of desert in the Middle East to establish their caliphate. Sign it up with international formalities. Encourage others of their radical ilk to go to live there and then 100% destroy the caliphate by miliarty means.