Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:20 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

I actually looked that up and surprisingly it is a public road under the domain of the Westminster Council, albeit one that is controlled by some vague reference to anti-terrorism in the same way the the police could temporarily shut down any old road that they fancy using such one-size-fits-all permissions. The buildings along the street are a designated site under Police Act so they have full control over them, but not the road itself, presumably because the PM wants the council to come and sweep it regularly rather than have to do it himself.

I'm suprised at that, you would've assumed it was under government control ever since they stopped allowing the public up to the door of 10 Downing Street.
Though I'm also suprised at the, apparently, shockingly poor CCTV quality covering Downing Street.

JerryChicken wrote:

Still doesn't detract from the fact that any reasonable person would comply with an order given by a police officer at any time on any public highway unless that person is being particularly obtuse, arrogant and/or stupid.

Well quite.

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:57 pm  

Him wrote:

Though I'm also suprised at the, apparently, shockingly poor CCTV quality covering Downing Street.

You've done it now!!
You've really gone and done it!!!

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:58 pm  

Him wrote:

Though I'm also suprised at the, apparently, shockingly poor CCTV quality covering Downing Street.

I still don't believe that its that bad and that better audio and video was not available to those who required it.

Don't forget that all of the cctv in the media was provided by Mitchells supporters to the press (including the ridiculous CH4 half hour propaganda broadcast) and was sourced from cameras mounted on Ministry buildings which under normal circumstances would be for access control purposes - have a look on Google Earth and you'll see that the Google car was allowed part way into Downing Street and you can easily see the two cameras from where the footage came, Mitchell clearly had pals working from those buildings but his influence didn't go quite all the way up the food chain to get at the real juicy footage, unless it didn't suit his propaganda of course (which is probably the case).

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:59 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

You've done it now!!
You've really gone and done it!!!

LOLZ

The fact that ISIS haven't just walked into Downing St since then shows that they don't believe it either.

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:04 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

LOLZ

The fact that ISIS haven't just walked into Downing St since then shows that they don't believe it either.

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:27 pm  

I'm not surprised that the CCTV was poor, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the extent of the CCTV system on Downing Street. The need for high quality CCTV footage is very low when you have 24 hour armed police guarding something.

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:19 pm  

Him wrote: I'm suprised at that, you would've assumed it was under government control ever since they stopped allowing the public up to the door of 10 Downing Street. The New Statesman gives a fairly good explanation of the restrictions applying to Downing Street. While the buildings are within a designated area for the purposes of anti-terrorist legislation, the road itself is not. However, it seems that a 2008 Order prohibits vehicles and pedestrians entering Downing Street. As for cycle access, an excerpt from the Operation Alice Closing Report appears to clear things up: Prior to 2010, a directive was sent out by the Downing Street Internal Security Team that no cyclists were to enter through the vehicle gates at Downing Street. This was for reasons of security in that the gates are large and cumbersome and therefore take longer to open and close. This created a greater risk that an intruder or unauthorised vehicle could enter Downing Street. All Diplomatic Protection Group officers are aware of this policy. However, Cabinet Ministers who required urgent access to Downing Street were afforded some leeway and officers could use discretion in respect of high profile individuals who required access. This process was formalised in June 2011 so that Cabinet Ministers were allowed unfettered access to Downing Street. This was not thought to apply to Cabinet Ministers who wished to exit the gates as there would be no urgent need to see the Prime Minister. Got to say, the Operation Alice report doesn't do Mitchell any favours. It seems his 'main gate' hissy fits were a regular fixture.

Him wrote: I'm suprised at that, you would've assumed it was under government control ever since they stopped allowing the public up to the door of 10 Downing Street. The New Statesman gives a fairly good explanation of the restrictions applying to Downing Street. While the buildings are within a designated area for the purposes of anti-terrorist legislation, the road itself is not. However, it seems that a 2008 Order prohibits vehicles and pedestrians entering Downing Street. As for cycle access, an excerpt from the Operation Alice Closing Report appears to clear things up: Prior to 2010, a directive was sent out by the Downing Street Internal Security Team that no cyclists were to enter through the vehicle gates at Downing Street. This was for reasons of security in that the gates are large and cumbersome and therefore take longer to open and close. This created a greater risk that an intruder or unauthorised vehicle could enter Downing Street. All Diplomatic Protection Group officers are aware of this policy. However, Cabinet Ministers who required urgent access to Downing Street were afforded some leeway and officers could use discretion in respect of high profile individuals who required access. This process was formalised in June 2011 so that Cabinet Ministers were allowed unfettered access to Downing Street. This was not thought to apply to Cabinet Ministers who wished to exit the gates as there would be no urgent need to see the Prime Minister. Got to say, the Operation Alice report doesn't do Mitchell any favours. It seems his 'main gate' hissy fits were a regular fixture.

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:36 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

I'm not surprised that the CCTV was poor, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the extent of the CCTV system on Downing Street. The need for high quality CCTV footage is very low when you have 24 hour armed police guarding something.

Presumably they don't bother in airports either then ?

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:41 pm  

Cronus wrote:

Got to say, the Operation Alice report doesn't do Mitchell any favours. It seems his 'main gate' hissy fits were a regular fixture.

You also have to wonder why he should be so bothered as to get into such a frenzy over something thats going to actually take longer to achieve, only someone with anger issues or an incredible overbearing belief that they know best would insist that they want to use "this" gate and "that" gate next to it just won't do, the more you think about it the more bizarre his behavior that night becomes.

Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update : Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:53 pm  

So far as I can see from the case reports and the trial, Mitchell seems to have felt that he should be able to mount his bike and ride uninterrupted out of Downing Street, as he was too important to have to either dismount and pass through the side gate, or to walk his bike to the same gate. It is plainly no quicker to stand and wait whilst the police manhandle the heavy gates open, and so being quicker is not any reason. The police "policy" seems to have been something of a shambles, and seemingly some would open the gates and others wouldn't. Just seems a bit arrogant to me to expect protection group officers to have to personally manhandle the heavy gates open just for me when there is no need and no time saving, and when by doing so a small security risk is avoidably created. The gates and the officers are there to provide security and not to be personal gatemen, to the detriment of their role, for those who might feel slightly inconvenienced to have to dismount and push their bike a few yards through a gate. I'd agree that if there was a policy not to open the gate save for cars, then all gate users including Mitchell should have had it made clear to them.