Re: Kier Starmer : Thu May 13, 2021 6:52 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

One is a bunch of near crooks who are doling out billions of pounds of money to their donors and friends.
The other comprises people of lesser and greater talents but with no indication they are in it for anything other than pursuing policy goals.

It helps if you don't read the right wing press, as I fear you may, because you're likely to get a somewhat jaundiced view of the world through that. Remember when they painted Ed Miliband, perhaps the most inoffensive politician imaginable, as some sort of commie, Britain-hating radical? It would be funny if so many people didn't form their opinions from these sources.

Funnily enough I dont read newspaper's, I watch quite a lot of political and news programs though ,enough to form my own opinion and I have no need to copy left wing scribes work and try and pass it as my own opinion which seems to happen on here ,the same left wing scribes who are turning the working man away from the labour party

Re: Kier Starmer : Thu May 13, 2021 8:17 pm  

JONNYGIANT wrote:

Funnily enough I dont read newspaper's, I watch quite a lot of political and news programs though ,enough to form my own opinion and I have no need to copy left wing scribes work and try and pass it as my own opinion which seems to happen on here ,the same left wing scribes who are turning the working man away from the labour party

You think "left wing scribes" (I honestly couldn't name one? That bloke who writes about politics for the Daily Mirror maybe?) are driving the "working man" away from Labour?
I really don't think they have that much influence - indeed the only reason you'd think they did if some left wing nutter says something which gets amplified by the frothy-mouth brigade on the right.
The press people actually consume and which sets the agenda in this country is wildly right wing.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 14, 2021 9:34 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You think "left wing scribes" (I honestly couldn't name one? That bloke who writes about politics for the Daily Mirror maybe?) are driving the "working man" away from Labour?
I really don't think they have that much influence - indeed the only reason you'd think they did if some left wing nutter says something which gets amplified by the frothy-mouth brigade on the right.
The press people actually consume and which sets the agenda in this country is wildly right wing.

I think the likes of Owen Jones, Grace Blackely, Ash - I shag like a hooker - Sarkar and the whole Novara/Momentum crew do alienate the normal working man - these are very privileged very well paid individuals looking down on the common man and basically saying to them "you must be stupid because you don't think like I do" - a bit like the left leaners on here.

This is the voice of young Labour - not sure how sitting in your posh flat in Shoreditch helps you relate to the average voter in Hartlepool?

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 14, 2021 9:36 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

So what would be your three word, four beat opposition response to Build Back Better? From a purely political, election-fighting/winning perspective? I mean, that is sodding alliterative! Massive challenge. Although I suppose they could divert resources from their policy group because nobody cares anymore.

Get us Healthy

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 14, 2021 10:03 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

This is the voice of young Labour - not sure how sitting in your posh flat in Shoreditch helps you relate to the average voter in Hartlepool?

And yet, a (very) well off, former London Mayor, does.
The irony is unbelievable.

Labour screwed up over Brexit in spectacular fashion and "the red wall" and places like Hartlepool have certainly not forgiven Labour, nor should they.

It's quite scary that less well off people believe that Boris and the Tories have suddenly changed and actually become compassionate with they poorest in society.

You clearly havent seen the story of the young lady that took her own life after benefit payments were slashed.
A direct policy of the government.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 14, 2021 11:10 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

And yet, a (very) well off, former London Mayor, does.
The irony is unbelievable.

Labour screwed up over Brexit in spectacular fashion and "the red wall" and places like Hartlepool have certainly not forgiven Labour, nor should they.

It's quite scary that less well off people believe that Boris and the Tories have suddenly changed and actually become compassionate with they poorest in society.

You clearly havent seen the story of the young lady that took her own life after benefit payments were slashed.
A direct policy of the government.

It will never really be known if that is why that young lady tragically took her own life. The Tories have increased the minimum wage significantly and well above inflation, they have also increased personal allowances repeatedly during the last 11 years - so to say they are not in touch or don't impact the poorest in society doesn't hold water.

I would agree with you in respect of Boris - thankfully he is more of a figure head than an actual functioning member of the Government and there are plenty of Tories in the government who has had jobs at the coal face and do understand what is required. How many of the young Labour elite's have actually done a job that requires understanding and motivating people to be the best they can be?

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 14, 2021 11:44 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I think the likes of Owen Jones, Grace Blackely, Ash - I shag like a hooker - Sarkar and the whole Novara/Momentum crew do alienate the normal working man - these are very privileged very well paid individuals looking down on the common man and basically saying to them "you must be stupid because you don't think like I do" - a bit like the left leaners on here.

This is the voice of young Labour - not sure how sitting in your posh flat in Shoreditch helps you relate to the average voter in Hartlepool?

Precisely mate

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 14, 2021 12:10 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

It will never really be known if that is why that young lady tragically took her own life. The Tories have increased the minimum wage significantly and well above inflation, they have also increased personal allowances repeatedly during the last 11 years - so to say they are not in touch or don't impact the poorest in society doesn't hold water.

I would agree with you in respect of Boris - thankfully he is more of a figure head than an actual functioning member of the Government and there are plenty of Tories in the government who has had jobs at the coal face and do understand what is required. How many of the young Labour elite's have actually done a job that requires understanding and motivating people to be the best they can be?

Sorry bud, you've got this wrong, again.

The government employ a 3rd party company to deal with benefits claims and to reduce them.
Claims are supposed to be dealt with fairly and yet I know 2 people who's circumstances had not changed between "reviews", yet both had benefits "stopped" as they were deemed fit for work.
Both of these people appealed (and needed help in doing so) and their benefits were re instated. However, this process takes several months, in which time they have to live on fresh air or, the good will of those who know them.
One of the people I mention, literally stopped eating and the other had a serious breakdown.

As I said, you haven't got a clue what your talking about.

This isn't about "the Labour elite", its about core beliefs on how people with particular needs should be treated.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 14, 2021 12:22 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

I think the likes of Owen Jones, Grace Blackely, Ash - I shag like a hooker - Sarkar and the whole Novara/Momentum crew do alienate the normal working man - these are very privileged very well paid individuals looking down on the common man and basically saying to them "you must be stupid because you don't think like I do" - a bit like the left leaners on here.

This is the voice of young Labour - not sure how sitting in your posh flat in Shoreditch helps you relate to the average voter in Hartlepool?

I've heard of Owen Jones but the others are mysteries - as they no doubt are to the vast majority of people in the UK.
They may be famous in left wing and right wing echo chambers, where they may generate support or fury, but I really do not see them having a wider impact.

Many working class people have always been culturally conservative but the Labour party as the party of working people represented them generally. In an era of American-style culture wars, fostered by right wing media outrage machines, it is perhaps understandable that this sort of identity politics is now taking hold - with economic considerations and policies now a secondary factor.

Re: Kier Starmer : Fri May 14, 2021 12:26 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Sorry bud, you've got this wrong, again.

The government employ a 3rd party company to deal with benefits claims and to reduce them.
Claims are supposed to be dealt with fairly and yet I know 2 people who's circumstances had not changed between "reviews", yet both had benefits "stopped" as they were deemed fit for work.
Both of these people appealed (and needed help in doing so) and their benefits were re instated. However, this process takes several months, in which time they have to live on fresh air or, the good will of those who know them.
One of the people I mention, literally stopped eating and the other had a serious breakdown.

As I said, you haven't got a clue what your talking about.

This isn't about "the Labour elite", its about core beliefs on how people with particular needs should be treated.

These are the not the normal cases in fact they are very rare - increase of minimum wage etc impact millions - if the lack of benefits was a suicidal contributor then we would see far more cases - I would suggest these cases are far more complex than you are suggesting - but of course you know best (sic)

I would suggest that most people do better under the Tories than they ever do under Labour - of course your red boxers wont allow you to see the wood for the trees. The idea that every Labour politician has a higher level of behaviour/care than any Tory simply doesn't stack up - hey Keep the red flag flying