Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:46 am  

LeagueDweeb wrote:

The 2011 Parliamentary Act cannot be amended or repealed until it is looked at by a committee, which itself will only come into existence in June 2020 at the earliest. Thus, the 2015 election could only move by two months with the agreement of both Houses.

This government can not bind the next to any legislation, that clause in the act would have been blown out of the water by any decent brief.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:57 am  

World of Redboy wrote:

I'm disappointed. I'm glad the no vote won just to shut that idiot Salmond up, but also I wish the yes had won so we could consign Scotland to the dustbin where it belongs.

Scotland, in a dustbin?

have you ever been?

it's a wonderful place and the people are, by and large, welcoming and friendly. I lived in Glasgow for two years, and I never had a bad experience (well, other than the usual Friday/Saturday night occurrences that go on in every city/town/market town/village anywhere else)

I am happy they voted No, we are a UNION, and long may we remain UNITED.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:42 am  

Former St.Helens council leader Marie Rimmer has been arrested in Scotland on charges of assault, outside a polling station while campaigning for people to vote no to independence. She is also the selected Labour candidate for the St.Helens south constituency in the forthcoming general election Make of this what you will. Doesn't look good though, and should finish her political career. http://www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/news/ ... -1-6849335

Former St.Helens council leader Marie Rimmer has been arrested in Scotland on charges of assault, outside a polling station while campaigning for people to vote no to independence. She is also the selected Labour candidate for the St.Helens south constituency in the forthcoming general election Make of this what you will. Doesn't look good though, and should finish her political career. http://www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/news/ ... -1-6849335

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:46 am  

I moved to Glasgow alonst two years ago from Leeds for work reasons.

I voted No as any potential upside was dwarfed by the potential negative economic consequences.

I'm ecstatic at the result this morning. I really like living here. I have a good standard of living and lifestyle, the people are very friendly and you have some outstanding scenery on your doorstep.

Glasgow has some rough parts but it's great for shopping, there are some cracking places to eat and drinkk,my rent money goes a bit further and it's not as crowded as places I've lived or visted in England.

I'm absolutely chuffed to bits and can now get on with my life.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:47 am  

The Chair Maker wrote: Former St.Helens council leader Marie Rimmer has been arrested in Scotland on charges of assault, outside a polling station while campaigning for people to vote no to independence. She is also the selected Labour candidate for the St.Helens south constituency in the forthcoming general election Make of this what you will. Doesn't look good though, and should finish her political career. http://www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/news/ ... -1-6849335 did they have a shuffle, or a scuffle?

The Chair Maker wrote: Former St.Helens council leader Marie Rimmer has been arrested in Scotland on charges of assault, outside a polling station while campaigning for people to vote no to independence. She is also the selected Labour candidate for the St.Helens south constituency in the forthcoming general election Make of this what you will. Doesn't look good though, and should finish her political career. http://www.sthelensreporter.co.uk/news/ ... -1-6849335 did they have a shuffle, or a scuffle?

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:55 am  

Scotland, a dustbin? Christ, what would you call some areas of England? It has some less than salubrious areas (mainly inner-city, like anywhere), but the country is a stunningly beautiful place and the people, for the most, welcoming and warm although to be fair I've experienced "fkin sassenach b'strd" a few times, always in Glasgow. Similarly experienced anti-English abuse in Wales, but interestingly never in Ireland or N Ireland.

Following Scottish friends social media has been interesting. From one girl who excitedly rushed to place a bet as the odds of a 60% 'Yes' vote rose to 60-1, convinced she was on to a winner, to one chap who declared "whatever the result I'm proud of Scotland and you won't hear a bad word from me", whose facebook has deteriorated into him and his mum ranting and abusing 'No' voters, who are predictably winding them up. Many simply do not accept the democratic result, some even claiming it's fraudulent.

As many of us suspected, the 'No' voters were the silent, slightly intimidated and possibly mildly ashamed majority. It's difficult to get as enthusiastic and hold street parties when your cause and slogan is 'No', and the aggression of the 'Yes' campaign was clear for all to see. As I recall one person said on TV (and I paraphrase), "I see Yes banners in a lot of windows, but I see a lot more empty windows. I suspect they are your No voters".

Now it remains to be seen whether the clear message of utter disenfranchisement with the Westminster fraternity across the UK has struck home, and whether the momentum of change can be continued.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:58 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

To the relief of most of those in Westminster the problem has gone away now, its now a minor issue for the policy makers to come up with some bribes and snake oil for the Scots parliament to swallow while the rest get on with bribes and snake oil for May 2015.

It's interesting because the whole Yes campaign was based on bribes and snake oil and it worked remarkably well, huge numbers of people fell for the promise that everyone could have their cake and eat it no matter how nonsensical it was on a practical level, and they even got people to swallow the line that gaping inconvenient holes in the argument was just the bias of critics. It was at times quite like believing there are faries at the bottom of the garden, that it doesn't stack up doesn't matter, what matters is that it sounds nice.

But Labour have a real problem now, the public awareness of the West Lothian question is at an all time high, getting it to go away this close to a general election will be hard. The Conservatives need to be clever and inextricably link greater devolution for Scotland to greater devolution for England, so if Labour tries to block a fairer settlement for England it also hurts them in Scotland. Of course Labour could go along with a fairer settlement for England in the hope of securing an outright victory in the next general election and then simply renege on it and say "we lied, tough luck", it may actually be the only practical course. Of course the Conservative leadership has a problem in that it doesn't really want decentralisation of power, although there's been a long narrative of "localism" in practice in practice it has meant giving local authorities the power do what central government wants them to do.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:17 pm  

LeagueDweeb wrote:

Douglas Alexander gave it away last night that Labour won't address the West Lothian question, John Reid the same. Strangely Menzies Campbell went along with the English Parliament idea.

Cameron is really under the cosh. Has to be seen to get a formalised offer on the table by the end of February, has to handle a backbench rebellion on not answering the WL question & move to an English Parliament which he does not want. Has to make sure he is seen to properly deal with the devolution promise. Has to deal with the EU referendum question which UKIP will push even harder now the SNP has delivered on it's manifesto promise.

Without rehashing what has already been said about Labour's West Lothian Question problems, a fair settlement could leave them with serious problems. England is the largest and most dominant part of the UK, which means that a potential future Labour administration would become a lame duck on some major issues and votes if it actually accepted a fair and honest settlement for England.

I don't think we need another layer of English government, I just think we need to exclude MPs from non-English constituencies from votes which are devolved outside of England. The argument that it makes those excluded MPs "2nd Class" is just mendacious rubbish. If it is really that important to have daylight between UK issues and devolved issues then the English MPs could sit in another building when these issues are in session (although it is somewhat wasteful it is less wasteful than a full blown layer of government). In theory it would be nice to move the English sessions out of London to somewhere like Birmingham that would just be an excuse to ratchet up expenses and London is the capital of England even if it actually culturally rather different to the rest of England.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:33 pm  

Standee wrote:

Scotland, in a dustbin?

have you ever been?

it's a wonderful place and the people are, by and large, welcoming and friendly. I lived in Glasgow for two years, and I never had a bad experience (well, other than the usual Friday/Saturday night occurrences that go on in every city/town/market town/village anywhere else)

I am happy they voted No, we are a UNION, and long may we remain UNITED.

I've travelled around Europe fairly extensivelly over the years.
The Scots I've found by and large are made pretty welcome it's the Little Englanders that they tend to despise.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:08 pm  

Personally I love Scotland and the fact that almost monthly I get £200 + for every visit there has got nothing at all to do with it, October and November are already booked...