Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 11:35 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Between them, they are making a right mess of the situation.

We had longer to prepare, absolutely hid behind our inability to test people, with Hancock spewing nonsense about the quality of the available tests, despite Germany, China, South Korea etc, etc all being comfortable with the tests that they were carrying out. Yet again, they have misled the public to absolve themselves of their responsibilities.

Cronus and Sal will be along to claim this is just "spin", you know, like Alistair Campbell did for Blair but, Boris and Cummings are prepared to mis lead all of us.

As the UK deaths continue to surpass those who we deem "equal" to the UK, they will eventually run out of excuses bur, at what cost, in both lives and livelihoods.

I agree with you the Government have not done well here and it will hurt them in the future - what they have got to do now is get everything right from now - release from lockdown and getting the economy up and running are key.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 11:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I agree with you the Government have not done well here and it will hurt them in the future - what they have got to do now is get everything right from now - release from lockdown and getting the economy up and running are key.

I'd have more respect for them if they were open, honest, and actually managing the situation. Instead, they're managing the message. Even today, we get another dead cat in Neil Ferguson's stepping down. The right wing papers have all lead with this story, despite the fact it happened a month ago. It's almost like they've been saving it up for a bad news day. Is it just coincidence they break the story as the UK registers the highest death toll in Europe? What's more important? A woman calling in on Neil Ferguson for a bit of nookie, or the UK's death rate hitting the highest in Europe? It's a tough one! Don't ever say newspapers don't direct the narrative.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 12:02 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

I'd have more respect for them if they were open, honest, and actually managing the situation. Instead, they're managing the message. Even today, we get another dead cat in Neil Ferguson's stepping down. The right wing papers have all lead with this story, despite the fact it happened a month ago. It's almost like they've been saving it up for a bad news day. Is it just coincidence they break the story as the UK registers the highest death toll in Europe? What's more important? A woman calling in on Neil Ferguson for a bit of nookie, or the UK's death rate hitting the highest in Europe? It's a tough one! Don't ever say newspapers don't direct the narrative.

Correct - And the admission from Patrick Valance that the government were too slow on testing etc. is demoted to a 1inch piece!!!!

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 12:23 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I agree with you the Government have not done well here and it will hurt them in the future - what they have got to do now is get everything right from now - release from lockdown and getting the economy up and running are key.

Releasing the lockdown may put us right back to square one.
They need to get urgent help into care homes, in terms of testing and adequate PPE and stop telling fecking lies.

Hancock and his "no reliable test" is an absolute bloody disgrace.

Remember at the start, when we were told that "keeping deaths below 20,000 would be a good outcome" ?
What happens when they pass 50,000, which they may already have ??

If you look at how many people normally die at this time of year and compare 2020 with the past 5 years, there is one hell of a gap between the "usual" figure and this year, even when you take account of the numbers that the government are admitting to.

Now, either it's a very unfortunate year or, we aren't being told the truth and with Boris and Cummings "running" the show and the probability is that, the numbers losing their lives to covid 19 are being massively underestimated and in the absence of any meaningful tests, it will all be open to conjecture, which probably suits the government.

Of course, I'm just a "leftie" having a rant so feel free to dismiss my comments (as usual) but, you know that I'm right.

I remember certain posters ridiculing my comments when I suggested that the UK's death toll would surpass Italy, France and Spain but, guess what, we've proved that we are no 1 in Europe after all.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 12:54 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

I'd have more respect for them if they were open, honest, and actually managing the situation. Instead, they're managing the message. Even today, we get another dead cat in Neil Ferguson's stepping down. The right wing papers have all lead with this story, despite the fact it happened a month ago. It's almost like they've been saving it up for a bad news day. Is it just coincidence they break the story as the UK registers the highest death toll in Europe? What's more important? A woman calling in on Neil Ferguson for a bit of nookie, or the UK's death rate hitting the highest in Europe? It's a tough one! Don't ever say newspapers don't direct the narrative.

Their circulation is so low compared to TV and social there influence is no where near what it once was. If the radio and TV didn't lead with it then it would be a non-story

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 1:18 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Releasing the lockdown may put us right back to square one.
They need to get urgent help into care homes, in terms of testing and adequate PPE and stop telling fecking lies.

Hancock and his "no reliable test" is an absolute bloody disgrace.

Remember at the start, when we were told that "keeping deaths below 20,000 would be a good outcome" ?
What happens when they pass 50,000, which they may already have ??

If you look at how many people normally die at this time of year and compare 2020 with the past 5 years, there is one hell of a gap between the "usual" figure and this year, even when you take account of the numbers that the government are admitting to.

Now, either it's a very unfortunate year or, we aren't being told the truth and with Boris and Cummings "running" the show and the probability is that, the numbers losing their lives to covid 19 are being massively underestimated and in the absence of any meaningful tests, it will all be open to conjecture, which probably suits the government.

Of course, I'm just a "leftie" having a rant so feel free to dismiss my comments (as usual) but, you know that I'm right.

I remember certain posters ridiculing my comments when I suggested that the UK's death toll would surpass Italy, France and Spain but, guess what, we've proved that we are no 1 in Europe after all.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but we cannot stay in lockdown forever - millions will lose their jobs over this and the despair that will cause could dwarf even the 50k deaths. There has to be a trade-off and we have to accept when we loosen lockdown there is a chance of greater infections.

This is a very densely populated country and the lockdown has become less effective every week - the population will decide when lockdown ends, the best thing the government can do is set out a schedule that finishes at the end of May otherwise the general public wont support it. Not a chance you can enforce social distancing at nursery, primary and junior schools so you either accept that or kids don't get educated which is unacceptable.

If we accept the difference between normal death rate and new death rate as being Covid related how far is that off the figures being quoted. If you accept there are people not being recorded because of no tests then you have to accept people being recorded as having Covid that haven't - or do you think its only one way?

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 1:54 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

If we accept the difference between normal death rate and new death rate as being Covid related how far is that off the figures being quoted. If you accept there are people not being recorded because of no tests then you have to accept people being recorded as having Covid that haven't - or do you think its only one way?

How many do you think are being recorded as Covid that havent had the virus ?? I'll go for very, very few.
As for the other way around, you do the math and if the vast majority of additional deaths are not covid related, then what do you think is killing everyone this year.

As for lockdown, it really is simple.

If it was worth having the lockdown initially then surely "we" have to see it through or, what was the point.

Personally, I believe that we should recognise the most vulnerable groups and protect them as much as possible -as we have done since lockdown began and for those less at risk, yes, get them back to work. Although there are major issues with all forms of public transport, which personally, I would avoid at all costs - easy if you live up north but, for those in London and some other major cities, this will be much harder.
Also, for those that can work from home, it should continue for some little while and will very likely be something that many people will both get used to and have to get used to.

Obviously regular and frequent reviews on how this changes anything.

Social distancing to continue

As for sport, I dont know what happens - the only option for the foreseeable future is behind closed doors and stream the events but, whether this is commercially workable, I really dont know.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 5:11 pm  

Bojo announced 200000 tests daily available at the end of May
Test track trace app being tested in IOW
No major PPE issues being raised
Nightingdale hospitals being mothballed
Figures reducing; both deaths and new cases

Bojo and his team doing a great job as we move to the phased unlock

[Mild Rover]

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 5:18 pm  

Thanks for the update Laura.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed May 06, 2020 5:22 pm  

Got to be a WUM.

Nobody is that thick.