Re: All animals are equal... : Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:10 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Whoosh

The point about Rwanda has nothing to do with underplaying anything with regards its severity ...

Then one wonders why you decided to suggest that it might upset some of the board's "worthies" if the Holocaust was compared to Rwanda.

Now, given just how bad the Holocaust was, and the role it occupies in the collective mind and memory, it would have to be underplaying it to not see the Rwandan genocide as comparable.

Sal Paradise wrote:

There is a huge difference between wholesale slaughter e.g. the Nazis and the Hutus and what is happening to the Palastinians - pity your prejudiced views make this simple fact beyond your mental capacity. This is not ethnic cleansing or anything close to it, especially if you are suggesting it has gone on for 70 years - it took the Hutus 100 days to kill a million now that is ethnic cleansing.

It is ethnic cleansing. There's no rule somewhere about how long it takes or exactly how you do it, but that is what it is. Zionists do not want any Palestinians in what they believe should be Ersatz Israel.

Shall we do some quotes on this?

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.

"The Palestinians would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." Isreali Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"[The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, The Koenig Memorandum

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]

"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament] quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982

"What shocks and worries me is the narrow-mindedness and the shortsightedness of our military leaders. They seem to presume that the State of Israel may or even must-behave in the realm of international relations according to the laws of the jungle- -the long chain of false incidents and hostilities we have invented, and so many clashes we have provoked;" - From Diary of Moshe Sharett, former Primer Minister of Israel in Livia Rokach, Israel's Sacred Terrorism published 1980

The above are just a few.

Sal Paradise wrote:

On a final matter unless you can provide evidence that I ever said carers had expense accounts please refrain from using this every time I suggest your pearls of wisdom are not gospel?

See the posts from Coddy and this one:

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

... Case closed.

Indeed. Along with revealing an inability to read a post properly and accusing me of suggesting we never eat bananas.

Re: All animals are equal... : Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:55 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Ah, but you don't deny it. Your careless choice of riposte allows of only the following possibilities:

1. You DID say it, but aren't sure if the record has been deleted; or

2. You DON'T KNOW whether or not you said it; in which case it doesn't matter whether you did or didn't, as if that was not your view, you WOULD know you'd never have said it.

Case closed.

I know exactly what I said. I know it is the norm for senior members including moderators to make false accusations and hide behind the anonymity of user names. It is about time those involved either substantiated there claims or refrained from using them just because someone dares to question their pronouncements.

Re: All animals are equal... : Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:00 am  

cod'ead wrote:

You did assert that carers were "obviously paid expenses" for travelling to and from their clients. I've no doubt that the original thread has now dropped off the boards but have no idea whether a mod has the inclination, let alone the ability to trawl back though the archives to find it.

No i didn't - in response to someone's post that carers only got paid when they were actually caring for the needy and their travel time between patients was excluded from their pay. I don't believe actually happens in the softer public sector, can't see any caring/sharing union allowing that. What I said was I can believe this happening if the work was contracted outside to private firms and you can be sure if that were the case the carers travelling expenses would be covered either through a company vehicle or rembursments of travel costs.

Re: All animals are equal... : Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:07 am  

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox),

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

My dad's bigger than your dad!!

Re: All animals are equal... : Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:28 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I know exactly what I said. I know it is the norm for senior members including moderators to make false accusations and hide behind the anonymity of user names. It is about time those involved either substantiated there claims or refrained from using them just because someone dares to question their pronouncements.

Read the AUP – the bit about criticising the moderators/moderation process. Inwardly digest.

Because I'm going to start classing this sort of whingy chippiness, with not a shred of evidence actually ever provided, as exactly that.

Re: All animals are equal... : Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:28 pm  

This is the only site I use that actively prevents public criticism of the moderation process. How ironic that your reference to it was in the "All animals are equal" thread

Re: All animals are equal... : Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:33 pm  

Blazingsmoke Bronco wrote:

This is the only site I use that actively prevents public criticism of the moderation process. How ironic that your reference to it was in the "All animals are equal" thread

OK bye bye

Re: All animals are equal... : Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:37 pm  

Blazingsmoke Bronco wrote:

This is the only site I use that actively prevents public criticism of the moderation process. How ironic that your reference to it was in the "All animals are equal" thread

Well. There you go. If you don't like it ...

Re: All animals are equal... : Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:25 pm  

Last night I ventured to Kilburn High Road to see Mark Thomas's show about his "ramble" along the wall that Israel has erected to control the Palestinians in the West Bank.
It is 723 km long but the "border" that it is supposedly built upon is only half that length ... why? ... well, for a start the wall is all built in the Palestinian lands, none of it is in Israel, and it meanders deep into the West Bank to encircle illegal Iraeli settlements (by no means all of the Israeli West Bank settlements but some of the bigger ones.).

These settlements (mentioned earlier) are not previously unoccupied desert brought to fruition by stateless Israelis settling on them in tents and shacks, they are like large comfortable housing estates built by Israeli companies, subsidised by the Israeli government (attractively cheap, a house is 1/3 of the price of an equivalent in Tel Aviv) and protected very visibly by Israeli soldiers.

If you look at a map of the West Bank, Israel's annexing (not just occupation) of East Jerusalem, plus the land on the supposedly Israeli side of the wall, takes the wall about half way to the Dead Sea.

Bit by bit, Israel is ratcheting its way across the West Bank.

As Mintball said earlier, this is ethnic cleansing and (IMHO) Israel won't stop until it has taken all the West Bank to the River Jordan ... or until it is forced to stop.

Thing is, no one is trying to stop them ... except some Palestinians, who are then branded as extremists.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:24 am  

An article from today's Independent on the illegal settlements that have built with government approval and money.

An article from today's Independent on the illegal settlements that have built with government approval and money.