Re: One law for the.... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:34 pm  

Those claiming we do not have a 'casino economy' seem to have gone quiet.

Re: One law for the.... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:31 pm  

Dally wrote:

If the US government was not complicit (and I have no reason to think they were) then I think there will be trials.

Now might be a good time for Diamond to relinquish his US citizenship

Re: One law for the.... : Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:39 pm  

DaveO wrote:

I also found it really interesting that the rate rigging was done via email exchanges. I am sure in the past before IT systems allowed this easy communication the paths of the people setting the Libor rate and the traders never crossed. A Chinese Wall would have existed between these two sets of people as they just never met. It seems to me no one thought that it might not be a good idea for these two groups to be in such easy communication and preventing that sort of thing should have been put in place by Diamond.

I used to work for a major bank and I can assure you that this sort of manipulation has been going on for decades. Nothing to do with modern tech.

Re: One law for the.... : Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:09 am  

There's an interesting article in The Economist (no not the one with Osborne's j'accuse moment), that suggests LIBOR fixing went back as far as the late 80s. The FSA has identified price-rigging dating back to 2005, yet some current and former traders say that problems go back much further than that. “Fifteen years ago the word was that LIBOR was being rigged,” says one industry veteran closely involved in the LIBOR process. “It was one of those well kept secrets, but the regulator was asleep, the Bank of England didn’t care and…[the banks participating were] happy with the reference prices.” Says another: “Going back to the late 1980s, when I was a trader, you saw some pretty odd fixings…With traders, if you don’t actually nail it down, they’ll steal it.” If true, this could well blow up in the tories' faces

There's an interesting article in The Economist (no not the one with Osborne's j'accuse moment), that suggests LIBOR fixing went back as far as the late 80s. The FSA has identified price-rigging dating back to 2005, yet some current and former traders say that problems go back much further than that. “Fifteen years ago the word was that LIBOR was being rigged,” says one industry veteran closely involved in the LIBOR process. “It was one of those well kept secrets, but the regulator was asleep, the Bank of England didn’t care and…[the banks participating were] happy with the reference prices.” Says another: “Going back to the late 1980s, when I was a trader, you saw some pretty odd fixings…With traders, if you don’t actually nail it down, they’ll steal it.” If true, this could well blow up in the tories' faces

Re: One law for the.... : Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:09 am  

cod'ead wrote: There's an interesting article in The Economist (no not the one with Osborne's j'accuse moment), that suggests LIBOR fixing went back as far as the late 80s. The FSA has identified price-rigging dating back to 2005, yet some current and former traders say that problems go back much further than that. “Fifteen years ago the word was that LIBOR was being rigged,” says one industry veteran closely involved in the LIBOR process. “It was one of those well kept secrets, but the regulator was asleep, the Bank of England didn’t care and…[the banks participating were] happy with the reference prices.” Says another: “Going back to the late 1980s, when I was a trader, you saw some pretty odd fixings…With traders, if you don’t actually nail it down, they’ll steal it.” If true, this could well blow up in the tories' faces This is why Labour want a judge led inquiry, to get the whole picture. I do find it strange that Osbourne seems to accuse pretty much the entire Labour treasury staff of being complicit and knowing what was going on at Barclays, yet we're supposed to believe that the guy who ran the department at Barclays at the time didn't have a clue. Interesting to see Osbourne following the current Tory strategy of hurling personal insults at Labour politicians yesterday. I guess that's all they've got. I couldn't go into politics, I'd have loved him if I'd been Ed Balls. Then, a raging for no real reason, Kirsty Walk actually asked Milliband what his father would make of the situation at the end of an interview on Newsnight, at this point I would have told her to go f*** herself. No, politics ain't for me. I don't know how these people can accomplish anything. Battle of the bullies.

cod'ead wrote: There's an interesting article in The Economist (no not the one with Osborne's j'accuse moment), that suggests LIBOR fixing went back as far as the late 80s. The FSA has identified price-rigging dating back to 2005, yet some current and former traders say that problems go back much further than that. “Fifteen years ago the word was that LIBOR was being rigged,” says one industry veteran closely involved in the LIBOR process. “It was one of those well kept secrets, but the regulator was asleep, the Bank of England didn’t care and…[the banks participating were] happy with the reference prices.” Says another: “Going back to the late 1980s, when I was a trader, you saw some pretty odd fixings…With traders, if you don’t actually nail it down, they’ll steal it.” If true, this could well blow up in the tories' faces This is why Labour want a judge led inquiry, to get the whole picture. I do find it strange that Osbourne seems to accuse pretty much the entire Labour treasury staff of being complicit and knowing what was going on at Barclays, yet we're supposed to believe that the guy who ran the department at Barclays at the time didn't have a clue. Interesting to see Osbourne following the current Tory strategy of hurling personal insults at Labour politicians yesterday. I guess that's all they've got. I couldn't go into politics, I'd have loved him if I'd been Ed Balls. Then, a raging for no real reason, Kirsty Walk actually asked Milliband what his father would make of the situation at the end of an interview on Newsnight, at this point I would have told her to go f*** herself. No, politics ain't for me. I don't know how these people can accomplish anything. Battle of the bullies.

Re: One law for the.... : Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:34 am  

cod'ead wrote: I've long maintained the same - 100 x the lowest paid seems about fair. The when it comes to executive bonuses, that should apply across the board too. So if the CEO is paid £1m and receives a bonus of £5m then everyone in the company should receive a bonus of 5 x their annual salary. 100 times the lowest paid? Bloody hell, you're generous. The Ecology Building Society have gone for 6 (or 8, something like that).

cod'ead wrote: I've long maintained the same - 100 x the lowest paid seems about fair. The when it comes to executive bonuses, that should apply across the board too. So if the CEO is paid £1m and receives a bonus of £5m then everyone in the company should receive a bonus of 5 x their annual salary. 100 times the lowest paid? Bloody hell, you're generous. The Ecology Building Society have gone for 6 (or 8, something like that).

Re: One law for the.... : Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:14 am  

Red John wrote: 100 times the lowest paid? Bloody hell, you're generous. The Ecology Building Society have gone for 6 (or 8, something like that). Contrary to what some may believe, I've never had a problem with anyone making money and if the CEO of a UK-based major company wants to pay his cleaners no more than £10k, I haven't got a problem with him earning £1m. However, if he decides to outsource his cleaning and the cleaners then end up working for a contractor on £6k a year, the CEO's pay drops to £600k

Red John wrote: 100 times the lowest paid? Bloody hell, you're generous. The Ecology Building Society have gone for 6 (or 8, something like that). Contrary to what some may believe, I've never had a problem with anyone making money and if the CEO of a UK-based major company wants to pay his cleaners no more than £10k, I haven't got a problem with him earning £1m. However, if he decides to outsource his cleaning and the cleaners then end up working for a contractor on £6k a year, the CEO's pay drops to £600k

[DaveO]

Re: One law for the.... : Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:29 pm  

billypop wrote:

I used to work for a major bank and I can assure you that this sort of manipulation has been going on for decades. Nothing to do with modern tech.

Well I am talking the mid-eighties but fair enough.

I was working for software suppliers and whenever I was on-site and given access to computer systems it was almost necessary to sign in blood. Likewise passwords were delivered in sealed envelopes and those responsible for the hardware security devices (the things that do stuff like PIN translation and verify MAC's) took their jobs very seriously. Banks were a ideal place for a certain type of person to work in IT. We had one chap leave out company to work for Lloyds and as a developer he was awful. He found his niche at the bank being very fastidious and so on. Hot on procedure, rubbish at producing anything.

As to technology making things like this easier to do I still think there is something in it. It is much easier to ask someone to do something wrong in a faceless email rather than face to face.

Re: One law for the.... : Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:36 pm  

billypop wrote:

I used to work for a major bank and I can assure you that this sort of manipulation has been going on for decades. Nothing to do with modern tech.

Get yourself down to the enquiry then and give evidence.

Re: One law for the.... : Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:48 pm  

Not as tough as they seem Rich Ricci sheds tears on the trading floor and SFO finally gets what's happening and launches a "probe"

Not as tough as they seem Rich Ricci sheds tears on the trading floor and SFO finally gets what's happening and launches a "probe"