Re: Marxism back again : Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:55 pm  

Mintball wrote:

You gave no evidence whatsoever.

What is the textural basis for your claims about Marxism?

What workers' cooperative has shareholders other than the workers?

These are specific questions raised by your claims. Now stop trying to deflect the conversation and answer these.

Stop being daft. I said they were acting as though they were running such an enterprise, not that they were running one. So, as you say, stop deflecting and in your case trivialising and answer the straightforward questions I have asked. I don't expect you to. It would be a first.

Re: Marxism back again : Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:58 pm  

Dally wrote:

Stop being daft. I said they were acting as though they were running such an enterprise, not that they were running one. So, as you say, stop deflecting and in your case trivialising and answer the straightforward questions I have asked. I don't expect you to. It would be a first.

I read what you posted.

Now kindly provide the textural evidence that that is a Marxist way of behaving.

And the evidence of workers' cooperatives that have shareholders other than the workers.

Then, instead of coming up with utterly contradictory comments about my political ethos – 'you say you're not a socialist', followed by 'wannabe socialist' – while you clearly remember me posting about my ethos on here previously, how about posting your own, which you have never done. Indeed, you blather on about 'solutions', but you're famous here yourself for never offering anything but a line in Chicken Licken hysteria.

Re: Marxism back again : Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:14 pm  

Mintball wrote:

...Chicken Licken hysteria.

Paddle faster . . . I think I heard banjos

Re: Marxism back again : Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:29 pm  

Mintball wrote:

I read what you posted.

Now kindly provide the textural evidence that that is a Marxist way of behaving.

And the evidence of workers' cooperatives that have shareholders other than the workers.

Then, instead of coming up with utterly contradictory comments about my political ethos – 'you say you're not a socialist', followed by 'wannabe socialist' – while you clearly remember me posting about my ethos on here previously, how about posting your own, which you have never done. Indeed, you blather on about 'solutions', but you're famous here yourself for never offering anything but a line in Chicken Licken hysteria.

Indeed, you are wrong. I did write here, as I believe tb will recall, that I was what you might term "Old" Labour.

Re: Marxism back again : Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:36 pm  

Dally wrote:

Indeed, you are wrong. I did write here, as I believe tb will recall, that I was what you might term "Old" Labour.

You are George Dallyway and I claim my £5

Re: Marxism back again : Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:09 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

:lol:

Paddle faster . . . I think I heard banjos

Never mind duelling, I think I can hear a bleedin' orchestra of them.

I think my most masochistic tendencies come to the fore when Dally and certain others are around.

That, and being like a dog with a bloody bone.

Re: Marxism back again : Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:37 pm  

Mintball wrote: ... That, and being like a dog with a bloody bone. But they can't help it

Mintball wrote: ... That, and being like a dog with a bloody bone. But they can't help it

Re: Marxism back again : Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:18 pm  

Dally wrote:

As I said, it never went away. Another illustration is that Marxists wanted to control the "commanding heights of the economy" (I believe a phrase attributed to Lenin)..

Are you aware of political differences between Marxism and Leninism, or are you quite happy to just lump it all in that sack you call 'Labour'?

I think we can pretty much say, along with your assertion that bankers using their businesses as their own piggy banks is the same as workers co-operatives sharing the fruit of their procuce AMONGST THEMSELVES, that any opinion you have on this subject can now be safely ignored as the ramblings of someone with only the vaguest understanding of left wing political thought.


(Capitals used to emphasise the difference between co-operatives and shareholders. In case you still haven't grasped it, the workers in a co-operative produce whatever they produce, sell whatever they produce and split the profits equally amongst them, and shareholders just gamble on how good the production of the workers will be without actually lifting a finger to do any work themselves.
I think that covers it for you, I'm sorry I couldn't find any more single syllable words to simplify it even further for you)

Re: Marxism back again : Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:36 am  

^

Re: Marxism back again : Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:46 am  

Lenin was in favour of violence against anybody and everybody who stood in his way. The most nonsensical whitewashing of history is the suggestion that somehow Stalin was the terrible oddball of Russian revolutionaries, and Lenin some kind of peace loving representative of all that was good and a great ideological thinker.