Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:43 am  

If, as has been reported, Cameron will refuse to participate in any pre-2015 election televised debates, I'm sure Farage would welcome the opportunity to take his place at the podium

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:05 am  

Mintball wrote:

I cannot pretend, unlike yourself, to talk on behalf of "we", but personally, I'd prefer a society where the poor, the low-paid and the vulnerable are not demonised, and where people who screw up and blight or ruin the lives of many more are not rewarded.

How are you going to do that - remove all the humans because that is the reality, whilst ever you have an unequal society this will always happen. Life is not fair it never will be so to suggest we can even things out is naive. Would you rather have things as they are or a society such as existed in Russia under Stalin i.e. a hard left approach.

We have had this discussion before even in a socialist state you will still have those in position of power who lead a very privileged existence. Look at North Korea - the leaders blight the lives of millions yet live a life of immense wealth is that the kind of society you want.

In this country the poor, low paid and vulnerable are not demonised the benefits available mean they can have a roof over their head and they can feed themselves - compare that to India for example?

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:15 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

How are you going to do that - remove all the humans because that is the reality, whilst ever you have an unequal society this will always happen. Life is not fair it never will be so to suggest we can even things out is naive. Would you rather have things as they are or a society such as existed in Russia under Stalin i.e. a hard left approach.

We have had this discussion before even in a socialist state you will still have those in position of power who lead a very privileged existence. Look at North Korea - the leaders blight the lives of millions yet live a life of immense wealth is that the kind of society you want.

In this country the poor, low paid and vulnerable are not demonised the benefits available mean they can have a roof over their head and they can feed themselves - compare that to India for example?

Why do you always use such extreme cases India, Soviet Russia, North Korea) as comparators?

Why not compare us to Sweden or Denmark?

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:20 am  

rover49 wrote:

Thought she was poor to be honest. She should have livened it up a bit by nutting that Tory cow next to her, what a sanctimonious piece of work she was.

I must admit to a slight titter when I read this tweet from Frankie Boyle:

Frankie Boyle ‏@frankieboyle

Claire Perry must have a clitoris like a toddler's leg hanging out of a pram #bbcqt

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:22 am  

So UKIP came second in a mid term by-election.

Am I the only one who remembers the Mnster Raving Loonies doing the same in (IIRC) Bootle in the late 80s? The difference being that one party had policies that could actually make it to law, and the others are a bunch of posh xenophobes.

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:54 am  

cod'ead wrote:

Why do you always use such extreme cases India, Soviet Russia, North Korea) as comparators?

Why not compare us to Sweden or Denmark?

Because the kind of hard left society some are craving doesn't exist outside of the old soviet union or Korea and it certainly doesn't exist in either Sweden or Denmark.

[Kosh]

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:58 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Because the kind of hard left society some are craving doesn't exist outside of the old soviet union or Korea and it certainly doesn't exist in either Sweden or Denmark.

You really are quite breathtakingly clueless.

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:56 am  

Kosh wrote:

You really are quite breathtakingly clueless.

Look at Sweden and Denmark's fiscal deficts relative to the UKs. They have been disciplined and kept public spending under control. Sweden returned from economic crisis by being disciplined and cutting their deficit come what may. Unsurprisingly, there was initial resistance from the idiots on the left but the medicine has worked big time.

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:00 pm  

Dally wrote:

Look at Sweden and Denmark's fiscal deficts relative to the UKs. They have been disciplined and kept public spending under control.

With their tax & NI receipts, it's a lot simpler to keep public spending under control, especially when you also factor in not wishing to act as the world's policeman

Re: Eastleigh : Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:01 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

... In this country the poor, low paid and vulnerable are not demonised the benefits available mean they can have a roof over their head and they can feed themselves ...

1) Yes, they are demonised. By assorted rags that have sought to create an idea that anyone who is in receipt of any form of benefit (apart from ones such as child allowance or pensions, which the middle classes receive too) are scroungers and are living a life of off the backs of "we" hardworking taxpayers. Even a fleeting look at the comments sections of much of the media reveals that this has been incredibly successful.

So successful has it been that there are reports of increases in the amount of abuse that disabled people are suffering. Why else would there be an increase in such abuse?

2) "Feed themselves"? Will that explain the rising number of foodbanks in the UK? Foodbanks that serve, in many, many cases, people who work, but who have a low enough income that they are increasingly finding themselves faced with a choice between food or heat?

You see, that's the sort of thing that personally, I find obscenely wrong. Just as I find it obscenely wrong that "we", those taxpayers who are doing a bit better, are subsiding the profits of very large and very successful companies that refuse to pay their workforce a decent, living wage – something that would actually help the economy as a whole.

And, as has been said already, why not look at Scandinavia instead of North Korea, since absolutely nobody here is talking about anything even close to the latter.