Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:44 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

But there has to be need - if there was in the private sector these jobs would have been created.

And I've been saying for a very long time that we need to rebuild manufacturing. But it doesn't happen overnight – and the reasons it fell away were because of decisions taken by politicians on the basis of a particular ideology, which even ignoring that basically the same ideology had failed in the past (and was massively instrumental in leading to WWII), it has proved to be disastrous for large geographic swathes of the country, and also for pretty much anyone who isn't in the narrow band of top earners, and that in a number of ways.

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:55 pm  

Mintball wrote:

I'd dispute that it is.

That there have been attacks by politicians on the rest of the country is not indicative of London doing something – indeed, there are many Londons, if you will, and some of them have been and are being attacked in the same way.

It's going to be the case in any country where the capital city is the home of not only the legislature, but also finance, culture etc (France is another example) that people will leave their homes in the 'provinces' and go to the city to 'make their fortune' – I know that's simplistic, but you get my drift.

I don't think London sucks life (?) out of the rest of the country, more that increasingly over the last 30 years, because of political decisions (which are not 'London decisions' even if made in London's environs) and the intertwined recessions.

Who knows – 'The North' might have been delighted to see me pack my bags and come down here during the second recession of the 1980s, because that seemed the only coherent chance of getting long-term work progress. But I don't think that was because London sucks everything up, more because of a pattern of behaviour by politicians – who are mostly NOT from London – and particularly in the last 30-plus years enacting policies that had particularly negative effects on parts of the country outside London. Or in way, to be more precise, part of the country outside a few boroughs of London – and the Home Counties.

I think we are arguing over Semantics TBH, The point is that this country is become more and more 'London or bust' therefore it is hardly surprising that the area that gets the highest 'spend' gets the highest output.
The problem is that this has been going on for decades as you say and I'm not certain that the balance can ever be returned.

I personally think that when news items like the one linked at the start of this thread are created the writer needs to be sat down and slapped about a bit and reminded that it isn't a level playing field and hasn't been for YEARS.

[DaveO]

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:10 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Because it's the capital.

I don't think it is. There is a certain level of employment you get by default in a capital but that is mostly government related. Look at Australia and Canberra as an example. It is not Australia's financial capital despite being the nations.

In fact as I am sure you know one of the reasons Canberra was made the nations capital was to avoid what we see in London to prevent any one of its other major cities becaming dominant by dint of being the nations capital as well as a major metropolis.

Wigan for the national capital !!!

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:13 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

I don't quite grasp the requirement for that kind of relocation bonus.
Surely, if they sold their London property they'd liquidise the equity into cash that they could use, if they so chose, to invest in the London property market?
If they didn't sell, they'd still have the house along with its equity.

There isn't any logic to it, apart from the belief that property values increase at a greater rate in London & teh South East than anywhere else in the country. But that's the crazy situation we get into where a house is seen as something other than somewhere to live

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:11 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

There isn't any logic to it, apart from the belief that property values increase at a greater rate in London & teh South East than anywhere else in the country. But that's the crazy situation we get into where a house is seen as something other than somewhere to live

Your house is the beignets financial investment 99.9% of the population will ever make. It has to be seen as more than just a place of habitation. I appreciate your think we should all rent and ownership is anti-social but society has moved on since the 60s and people do want to own their own castle. If we take your logic we will all be returning our cars because 50 years ago they were considered a luxury. Things move on you need to accept yours isn't the only view out there.

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:40 pm  

On balance, I'm with Sal on this one.

Rent is dead money on which you get no return.
If you buy, even if prices remain static, at least you get most of your money back when you sell.
Thinking of your home as an investment is caused by seeing prices go up.
If supply met demand, prices would not rise so much ... except that they aren't making any more land in the UK, so prices will rise over time.
So, a house becomes an investment.

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:12 pm  

It's obvious we won't be pulling up any trees economically, the Tories smashed all our industry into rubble.

Though Leeds is apparantly the 2nd largest financial sector in the UK, I'm told.

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:22 pm  

TrinityIHC wrote:

It's obvious we won't be pulling up any trees economically, the Tories smashed all our industry into rubble.

Though Leeds is apparantly the 2nd largest financial sector in the UK, I'm told.

Ahead of Edimbugh?

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:48 am  

Sal Paradise wrote: Your house is the beignets financial investment 99.9% of the population will ever make. It has to be seen as more than just a place of habitation. I appreciate your think we should all rent and ownership is anti-social but society has moved on since the 60s and people do want to own their own castle. If we take your logic we will all be returning our cars because 50 years ago they were considered a luxury. Things move on you need to accept yours isn't the only view out there. Perhaps I could have phrased it better: "where a house is seen primarily as an investment rather than somewhere to live" But there you go throwing around unsubstantiated sytatistics again. Where do you get a figure of 99.9% of home ownership from? The reality of home ownership is now only a distant dream to an ever increasing percentage of the population, a percentage far higher than your 0.1%. Given that, as the bearded one stated, they ain't making land anymore and your tory mates are more than happy to keep the poor in penury, how do you suggest those in the rented sector get the opportunity to enter the home-ownership market? The latest figures show: home ownership (including mortgaged) of 14.5m Rented households of 7m So approximately 1/3rd of households are renting, a figure that has continued to rise against ownership over the last few years. SOURCE

Sal Paradise wrote: Your house is the beignets financial investment 99.9% of the population will ever make. It has to be seen as more than just a place of habitation. I appreciate your think we should all rent and ownership is anti-social but society has moved on since the 60s and people do want to own their own castle. If we take your logic we will all be returning our cars because 50 years ago they were considered a luxury. Things move on you need to accept yours isn't the only view out there. Perhaps I could have phrased it better: "where a house is seen primarily as an investment rather than somewhere to live" But there you go throwing around unsubstantiated sytatistics again. Where do you get a figure of 99.9% of home ownership from? The reality of home ownership is now only a distant dream to an ever increasing percentage of the population, a percentage far higher than your 0.1%. Given that, as the bearded one stated, they ain't making land anymore and your tory mates are more than happy to keep the poor in penury, how do you suggest those in the rented sector get the opportunity to enter the home-ownership market? The latest figures show: home ownership (including mortgaged) of 14.5m Rented households of 7m So approximately 1/3rd of households are renting, a figure that has continued to rise against ownership over the last few years. SOURCE

Re: The UK's economy becomes more unbalanced : Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:47 am  

cod'ead wrote: Perhaps I could have phrased it better: "where a house is seen primarily as an investment rather than somewhere to live" But there you go throwing around unsubstantiated sytatistics again. Where do you get a figure of 99.9% of home ownership from? The reality of home ownership is now only a distant dream to an ever increasing percentage of the population, a percentage far higher than your 0.1%. Given that, as the bearded one stated, they ain't making land anymore and your tory mates are more than happy to keep the poor in penury, how do you suggest those in the rented sector get the opportunity to enter the home-ownership market? The latest figures show: home ownership (including mortgaged) of 14.5m Rented households of 7m So approximately 1/3rd of households are renting, a figure that has continued to rise against ownership over the last few years. SOURCE You are struggling with reading again - I said a house is the biggest investment that 99.9% of the population that do invest in house purchase, will ever make. My house is worth 10 times more than my next biggest investment a car. That is why people see house purchase as an investment. According to your grand plan there is heaps of land ripe for development - you think it should be developed for rental properties but it could easily be developed for ownership - shortage of land is not an issue in this country - but you need to get the banks etc on side or give suitable people access to the necessary funds to get on the ladder. This is not rocket science - you have to accept the majority of people given a choice - for the reason El B stated - want to own their own house. With a bit of help from us both my son and my daughter - both in their early 20s - have bought their own house/flat. It is possible - renting is dead money.

cod'ead wrote: Perhaps I could have phrased it better: "where a house is seen primarily as an investment rather than somewhere to live" But there you go throwing around unsubstantiated sytatistics again. Where do you get a figure of 99.9% of home ownership from? The reality of home ownership is now only a distant dream to an ever increasing percentage of the population, a percentage far higher than your 0.1%. Given that, as the bearded one stated, they ain't making land anymore and your tory mates are more than happy to keep the poor in penury, how do you suggest those in the rented sector get the opportunity to enter the home-ownership market? The latest figures show: home ownership (including mortgaged) of 14.5m Rented households of 7m So approximately 1/3rd of households are renting, a figure that has continued to rise against ownership over the last few years. SOURCE You are struggling with reading again - I said a house is the biggest investment that 99.9% of the population that do invest in house purchase, will ever make. My house is worth 10 times more than my next biggest investment a car. That is why people see house purchase as an investment. According to your grand plan there is heaps of land ripe for development - you think it should be developed for rental properties but it could easily be developed for ownership - shortage of land is not an issue in this country - but you need to get the banks etc on side or give suitable people access to the necessary funds to get on the ladder. This is not rocket science - you have to accept the majority of people given a choice - for the reason El B stated - want to own their own house. With a bit of help from us both my son and my daughter - both in their early 20s - have bought their own house/flat. It is possible - renting is dead money.