Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:30 pm  

Mintball wrote: Quite interesting article on 'the German problem'. However, at least he mentions that part of the 'problem' is actually a continuing Germanophobia – something we could argue has been seen here. I think there's pretty good reasons for "Germanophobia" don't you? Europe has an ageing population with millions of people still alive who suffered as a result of their evil. They are individually and collectively a nation of bullies who only respect one thing - being stood up to. I say well done Cyprus and I would really like the UK to bail Cyprus out on the condition they leave the Euro and join a new "sterling zone."

Mintball wrote: Quite interesting article on 'the German problem'. However, at least he mentions that part of the 'problem' is actually a continuing Germanophobia – something we could argue has been seen here. I think there's pretty good reasons for "Germanophobia" don't you? Europe has an ageing population with millions of people still alive who suffered as a result of their evil. They are individually and collectively a nation of bullies who only respect one thing - being stood up to. I say well done Cyprus and I would really like the UK to bail Cyprus out on the condition they leave the Euro and join a new "sterling zone."

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:36 pm  

Dally wrote:

I think there's pretty good reasons for "Germanophobia" don't you? Europe has an ageing population with millions of people still alive who suffered as a result of their evil. They are individually and collectively a nation of bullies who only respect one thing - being stood up to. I say well done Cyprus and I would really like the UK to bail Cyprus out on the condition they leave the Euro and join a new "sterling zone."

I really don't know where to start with this overheated xenophobic twaddle.
I'm going to assume you are trolling again.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:39 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

I really don't know where to start with this overheated xenophobic twaddle.
I'm going to assume you are trolling again.

Assume what you wish. But is it or is it not that many millions of living beings in Europe have suffered at the hands of the Germans? Given that, do you not think that a bit of "Germanophobia" is not to be expected?

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:40 pm  

I'm following most of these arguments, but can someone help me with this money laundering bit?

The Germans are proposing to take a cut off the big depositors, because the money is largely laundered?

If funds are laundered, surely the thing to do is return them to their true owner, or confiscate them under due process? Not just demand a cut, in an Al Capone stylee?

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:56 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I'm following most of these arguments, but can someone help me with this money laundering bit?

The Germans are proposing to take a cut off the big depositors, because the money is largely laundered?

If funds are laundered, surely the thing to do is return them to their true owner, or confiscate them under due process? Not just demand a cut, in an Al Capone stylee?

If an EU member state is so overtly laundering money, does that not mean their has been a catastrophic failure in regulation by the EU? Shouldn't senior heads roll?

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:58 pm  

Dally wrote:

Assume what you wish. But is it or is it not that many millions of living beings in Europe have suffered at the hands of the Germans? Given that, do you not think that a bit of "Germanophobia" is not to be expected?

Next thing we know, Dally will reveal that, on the same basis, he understands and agrees with anti-British sentiments.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:50 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Next thing we know, Dally will reveal that, on the same basis, he understands and agrees with anti-British sentiments.

Don't be silly Minty the 100 year war was us just having a jolly in France, The fact we tried to destroy the french way of life was purely accidental.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:07 pm  

Dally wrote:

Assume what you wish. But is it or is it not that many millions of living beings in Europe have suffered at the hands of the Germans? Given that, do you not think that a bit of "Germanophobia" is not to be expected?

In assuming trolling on your part, I was being kind.

The vast majority of Germans weren't even born in the time you are talking about.
According to your logic, purely by virtue of being English, you and I are "evil" because of what "we" did at Amritsar, for "our" concentration camps in SA and because "we" burned Joan of Arc.

But hey, labelling a nation as "evil" is so much easier than actually putting some thought into the argument, isn't it?

[Kosh]

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:13 pm  

DaveO wrote: That's as maybe but it doesn't alter the fact the Germans are ultimately behind the raids on deposits and I am sure not everyone on Cyprus who has more than 100K is a member of the Russian mafia. The Germans are not ultimately behind the raid on deposits below 100k Euros. Which is the point I am contending. DaveO wrote: The actions of German government and the opinions of the German people are linked you know Really? Blimey - I never would have guessed. They are not, however, identical. DaveO wrote: They may not be the only ones to have the view of money laundering in Cyprus but it is most certainly a big political issue in Germany and Merkel is not going to ignore public opinion about the issue and agree to a bailout of a full 16bn loan with elections coming up. It is naive to think otherwise. Good job I never suggested any such thing then. DaveO wrote: As to the 6bn being founded from deposits the troika are as responsible for that as anyone. Here is Dijsselbloems, the Eurogroup president, opinion on the matter "The levy I can strongly defend, because it is a direct way to ask a contribution of the deposits of the banking sector in Cyprus, which is inevitable if you want to a build a package which doesn't bring more loans and more debt to Cyprus than the 10 billion (euros) I mentioned before." From here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/21/eurozone-cyprus-eurogroup-idUSL6N0CD30520130321 Now that just mentions its a better way to do it than borrowing more but everyone knows the politics behind it which are primarily those of German reluctance to fully fund loans for the the reasons already mentioned. He's Dutch. And the Eurogroup are not Germany. DaveO wrote: He does also say its better if larger depositors pay more but that still means a raid on deposits which is wrong in principle IMO. I agree. DaveO wrote: Nothing like it at all. Here they are going against the principle that they themselves came up with that bond holders not savers suffer when banks fail and they are doing it for no other reason than German politics. It also sets a precedent that unelected bodies like the ECB can simply make things up as they go along. How secure do you think savers in other countries feel as a result? The ECB and IMF are not democratic institutions, so criticising them for being undemocratic is a tad redundant. They will be operating under rules and guidelines created by democratic institutions though. IMO they are a better target for ire. Savers in other countries will be feeling a lot less secure if Cyprus ever get around to actually implementing this levy. At that point I expect runs on banks in a number of EU states. The whole thing is a mess.

DaveO wrote: That's as maybe but it doesn't alter the fact the Germans are ultimately behind the raids on deposits and I am sure not everyone on Cyprus who has more than 100K is a member of the Russian mafia. The Germans are not ultimately behind the raid on deposits below 100k Euros. Which is the point I am contending. DaveO wrote: The actions of German government and the opinions of the German people are linked you know Really? Blimey - I never would have guessed. They are not, however, identical. DaveO wrote: They may not be the only ones to have the view of money laundering in Cyprus but it is most certainly a big political issue in Germany and Merkel is not going to ignore public opinion about the issue and agree to a bailout of a full 16bn loan with elections coming up. It is naive to think otherwise. Good job I never suggested any such thing then. DaveO wrote: As to the 6bn being founded from deposits the troika are as responsible for that as anyone. Here is Dijsselbloems, the Eurogroup president, opinion on the matter "The levy I can strongly defend, because it is a direct way to ask a contribution of the deposits of the banking sector in Cyprus, which is inevitable if you want to a build a package which doesn't bring more loans and more debt to Cyprus than the 10 billion (euros) I mentioned before." From here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/21/eurozone-cyprus-eurogroup-idUSL6N0CD30520130321 Now that just mentions its a better way to do it than borrowing more but everyone knows the politics behind it which are primarily those of German reluctance to fully fund loans for the the reasons already mentioned. He's Dutch. And the Eurogroup are not Germany. DaveO wrote: He does also say its better if larger depositors pay more but that still means a raid on deposits which is wrong in principle IMO. I agree. DaveO wrote: Nothing like it at all. Here they are going against the principle that they themselves came up with that bond holders not savers suffer when banks fail and they are doing it for no other reason than German politics. It also sets a precedent that unelected bodies like the ECB can simply make things up as they go along. How secure do you think savers in other countries feel as a result? The ECB and IMF are not democratic institutions, so criticising them for being undemocratic is a tad redundant. They will be operating under rules and guidelines created by democratic institutions though. IMO they are a better target for ire. Savers in other countries will be feeling a lot less secure if Cyprus ever get around to actually implementing this levy. At that point I expect runs on banks in a number of EU states. The whole thing is a mess.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:20 pm  

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

Don't be silly Minty the 100 year war was us just having a jolly in France, The fact we tried to destroy the french way of life was purely accidental.

And all those English soldiers who learnt their soldiering in the Thirty Years War – and then brought their expertise to bear in the English Civil Wars.

And that's not entirely unrelated to our history in Ireland.

And this doesn't even mention our imperial adventures in Africa and India and the far east ...

Not, incidentally, that I do 'sins of the fathers' and think any nation saintly or that we should all go around feeling ashamed of things we had absolutely no role in or control over.