None of this detracts from the case that the welfare state is in need of reform.



Your post seems to suggest that I disagree with the whole idea of a welfare state when this is not the case.

Go on then.



What is your idea of how a welfare state should operate?

Fair with incentives to 'get on'. It shouldn't trap people so that they are better off on benefits than having a job. It should also be simple and less complicated.

a lot of envy on here again

Not that old fanny again.



Any examples of your perpetual "envy" charge?

Well that sounds like a real plan

Can't fault the Tories on consistency when it comes to hammering the poor. They are talking about cutting credits to people on low earnings where they consider they haven't made sufficient effort to earn more! Pretty difficult when they allow employers like Tesco to sign people on part-time 24 hour contracts which oblige them to be on call full time 6 days a week. If they are going to demonise people for not having 2 or 3 jobs at least they should prevent these great "job creators" like Tesco from issuing such contracts.

Maybe if the system wasn't so open to abuse the likes of Philpott might have actually gone out and got a job rather than have a life on benefits based on breeding increasing number of off spring?

You appear to have drifted into the wrong thread

So do you genuinely think there is nothing wrong with the welfare state? Everything is working well?

I genuinely believe that the welfare state was working well for the majority of the population, until this bunch of sociopaths decided to rip it apart

Indeed.



I think there are areas that need tightening up, it seems too easy for instance to get JSA without any real checks into whether someone is actually trying to get a job. But that doesn't mean you punish everyone, you tighten up the system and punish those who aren't trying/abusing the system. Not demeaning, demoralising and punishing everyone.



Plus, any talk of reforming the Welfare state is almost irrelevant without addressing the largest components - State pensions and Housing Benefit. Anything else is merely fiddling around the edges. Yet funnily enough there is little talk about reforming state pensions by the government. Because it scares the bejesus out of everyone (and 1 of their large constituencies) and rightly so. People should get a decent pension in old age. But let's not pretend the Welfare bill can be reformed/reduced drastically without tackling by far the biggest element.

And Housing Benefit is merely a continual failure in both social and private housing provision.