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DaveO 
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Re: The "Free" Market and how you may be paid : Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:03 pm  
Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:
Obviously the people running numerous McDonald's restaurants will be people with access to serious cash. But that doesn't mean that they have up to date management skills or knowledge of the minute details of employment laws in the states they operate.


The right to be paid by cash or cheque isn't a minute detail!
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Re: The "Free" Market and how you may be paid : Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:12 pm  
Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:
I think the major victim here is McDonald's Corporation. They are victims of a rabid, biased press and the willing consumers of that press...


Now I know you're trolling. :D
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Re: The "Free" Market and how you may be paid : Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:44 pm  
Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:
I have seen figures about how much it costs to run major franchises like McDonald's. Of the top of my head a McDonald's restaurant will cost between $700k and $1.5m.

Obviously the people running numerous McDonald's restaurants will be people with access to serious cash. But that doesn't mean that they have up to date management skills or knowledge of the minute details of employment laws in the states they operate.


Anyone who sinks that sort of money into a business and doesn't know the minute details of employment law (or doesn't employ someone who does), is a blithering idiot who deserves to have their arze handed to them in a court of law.
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Re: The "Free" Market and how you may be paid : Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:56 pm  
DaveO wrote:
What? Your not serious. Very likely that the employee will tell the company? Do you ring your bank up every time you get a cold call asking you to claim for miss-sold PPI to let your bank know there is a scam artist lawyer trying to make a fast buck off them? Or do you just put the phone down?


You had previously said: "Why would he need to do that given there must have been others being paid that way who he could contact and dangle the prospect of compensation in front of."

So exactly how is he supposed to contact these injured parties to get them their rightful justice?

In any case solicitation of class action clients is not as simple as that kind of ambulance chasing. Defence lawyers in the US will always try and get such cases thrown out on the merest hint of lawyers inventing class actions.


Which could happen in this case.

"Gunshannon said she had taken her concerns to the main office of the franchise holder - Albert and Carol Mueller, trading as McDonald's, in Clarks Summit. "

As its the franchisee who is her employer imposing the card and its the franchisee being sued who should she have taken it to? Seems she went to the right place to me.

So she certainly followed one course of action you think right. She tried to get the company to obey the law before she quit when they would not.


If I wanted to be fobbed off after working for a company for a couple of weeks, I'd call on the phone whining that I wanted to be paid with a cheque and not the payroll card they'd given me. If I wanted the issue sorted I'd be writing a registered letter outlining my issues and pointing out the fact it was against the law to not offer cheque or direct debit.

It's not legal so why do you ask? I would imagine it's common knowledge in the US you can ask to be paid in cash or by cheque.


It's not an issue most people will have ever thought about. Most places will have simply paid their employees by cash, cheque or direct deposit and it is only recently that the payroll card has been introduced.

If she feels having these amounts deducted from her wages meant she could not live off the wage how could she stay as an employee?


She cannot afford to live on around $200 - a $5 fee, but she can afford to live on $0?

As I said I'd expect it to be common knowledge of your rights on how you can get paid just as you know many of your employment rights here.


I lived and worked in the USA for 6 years. I've worked in the UK about 15 years. I've never really had any issue with any employers, so I know practically NOTHING about employment law. I've never felt mistreated so I've never paid it any attention.

But just imagine that Pennsylvania state law said that payment through the payroll card was perfectly valid, and no other payment options needed to be offered. Wouldn't her quitting her job over the transaction fee be a spectacularly stupid thing to do?

I don't know what your issue is. If she had carried on working there she was going to try and seek redress and as others have said accepting the terms might have made that difficult. You seem offended she decided to quit.


El Barbudo questioned whether accepting the card would be a tacit agreement and make redress difficult. I don't believe it would. I believe that her losing the transaction fees out of her wage would demonstrate a clear loss which she should be compensated for. But as she quit almost straight away that loss is about $5. I hope she gets that $5 and maybe a cent to compensate her for her hardship.
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Re: The "Free" Market and how you may be paid : Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:27 pm  
Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:
But just imagine that Pennsylvania state law said that payment through the payroll card was perfectly valid, and no other payment options needed to be offered. Wouldn't her quitting her job over the transaction fee be a spectacularly stupid thing to do?



I think you can stop tying yourself in knots right there.

There is no supposing what the law might be, all there is is what the law is.
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Re: The "Free" Market and how you may be paid : Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:09 pm  
Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:
You had previously said: "Why would he need to do that given there must have been others being paid that way who he could contact and dangle the prospect of compensation in front of."

So exactly how is he supposed to contact these injured parties to get them their rightful justice?


You really have lost the plot now. You said:

"If the lawyer contacts a McDonald's employee asking how they are paid then it's very likely that the employee will tell the company, alerting them to the fact he is a scam artist lawyer trying to make a fast buck off them."

I responded to that suggesting this was highly unlikely an employee would do any such thing. Now you are talking about the lawyer contacting potential clients!!!

Which could happen in this case.


It could be thrown out but if it progresses then all your protestations about it being a deliberate scam will have been unfounded.

If I wanted to be fobbed off after working for a company for a couple of weeks, I'd call on the phone whining that I wanted to be paid with a cheque and not the payroll card they'd given me. If I wanted the issue sorted I'd be writing a registered letter outlining my issues and pointing out the fact it was against the law to not offer cheque or direct debit.


What don't you understand about the fact she complained and was fobbed off having complained?

It's not an issue most people will have ever thought about. Most places will have simply paid their employees by cash, cheque or direct deposit and it is only recently that the payroll card has been introduced.


The point is US employees will be very familiar with their rights to be paid by cheque or cash in the same way you are familiar with many of your employment rights in the UK (although I see below you are claiming ignorance as a defense of your position - good one.)

In the US cheques are still prevalent and it's also cash based society far more than here. It's a cultural thing. I actually worked for the worlds largest cheque printing company, Delux, until they sold off their IT arm when they decided to go back to their core business off printing cheques! They expected a decline in cheque usage so got into IT but the decline didn't happen so they got out again. I mention this to try and illustrate to you an important cultural difference between the US and here. I will pay electronically whenever I can. I like to be paid that way to. If I were a US citizen particularly one living outside the big cities I probably would not. Having a card based wage payment like this imposed even if it were legal would go down like a lead balloon over there.

She cannot afford to live on around $200 - a $5 fee, but she can afford to live on $0?


That is not what I said. And where is she living off $0? The article makes no mention of her income since leaving and given she isn't going to be able to live off $0 I suggest she is now receiving an income without the transaction charges deducted.

I lived and worked in the USA for 6 years.


Well you could have fooled me because you don't seem to have much understanding of the culture.

I've worked in the UK about 15 years. I've never really had any issue with any employers, so I know practically NOTHING about employment law. I've never felt mistreated so I've never paid it any attention.


That doesn't transfer to other people and clearly this woman on minimum wage understood her rights. Most less well off people do in my experience. They have to in order not to get shafted.

But just imagine that Pennsylvania state law said that payment through the payroll card was perfectly valid, and no other payment options needed to be offered. Wouldn't her quitting her job over the transaction fee be a spectacularly stupid thing to do?


No lets not imagine anything. Lets stick to the facts and the law as it stands. Why would I want to discuss and imaginary legal position?
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Re: The "Free" Market and how you may be paid : Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:07 pm  
DaveO wrote:
You really have lost the plot now. You said:

"If the lawyer contacts a McDonald's employee asking how they are paid then it's very likely that the employee will tell the company, alerting them to the fact he is a scam artist lawyer trying to make a fast buck off them."

I responded to that suggesting this was highly unlikely an employee would do any such thing. Now you are talking about the lawyer contacting potential clients!!!


I originally said I doubted that this was a genuine case because I doubted her story because I don't think any sensible person jacks in a job over a transaction fee. I said that I felt that this was a lawyer promoted situation and he probably got her to get a job at McD's to start the case. You said he'd have no need to do that because the restaurant already has people working there who he can contact. I don't think it would be safe for a lawyer to make cold calls to their present employees because it's highly likely the employees would talk between themselves and also talk with management.

It could be thrown out but if it progresses then all your protestations about it being a deliberate scam will have been unfounded.


It's not a "scam". There is a genuine problem with the payment practice of that franchise, and possibly some other companies as well.

What don't you understand about the fact she complained and was fobbed off having complained?


There are ways of complaining that will be fobbed off and ways of complaining that will be answered. Just from the articles, it seems she chose ways of complaining that virtually guarantee being fobbed off.

The point is US employees will be very familiar with their rights to be paid by cheque or cash in the same way you are familiar with many of your employment rights in the UK (although I see below you are claiming ignorance as a defense of your position - good one.)


The only people who would know about this issue are people who have dealt with it

That is not what I said. And where is she living off $0? The article makes no mention of her income since leaving and given she isn't going to be able to live off $0 I suggest she is now receiving an income without the transaction charges deducted.


Another article I read said her fiance is helping her out and she has been applying for other jobs.

Well you could have fooled me because you don't seem to have much understanding of the culture.


The culture of people without jobs is to accept whatever payment option is offered to them when they start a new job. About 4 years ago in England I was inquiring at an employment agency in Hudds about jobs and was told that the ONLY way they'd pay was direct to a bank account in my name. As I didn't have a bank account at that time it was an issue for me. But before going to see that agency I had no idea they would be so strict, I would have expected a cheque option or possibly a direct debit into one of my family members accounts.

NO ONE is going to know about this type of thing until they go through it or deal with this in their job.

That doesn't transfer to other people and clearly this woman on minimum wage understood her rights.


The articles never said that. It said she didn't agree with the transaction fees, complained to a manager and the franchise and asked about getting a payment into her credit union, was told to accept the card, then quit and went to see the lawyer if she had a claim because of the possibility of her wage dipping below minimum wage.

No lets not imagine anything. Lets stick to the facts and the law as it stands. Why would I want to discuss and imaginary legal position?


The facts are that she quit her job after 3 weeks of work allegedly because of the payroll card. What redress do you think SHE deserves from the company?
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