Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:54 am  

Derwent wrote: Oh I don't disagree with the principle of it at all, my point is that like all politicians it is only an issue for them when there is something in it for them. In this particular instance its Miliband, but it could be said of most of the other new breed of political lightweights we seem to have in this country nowadays. So in answer to your question - yes someone should do something about it. I'm just asking why nobody did anything about it a few years ago because this isn't exactly a new issue for concern is it ? I'd like to think that there's been a bit of a genuine change, and realisation that 'something must be done' (sorry for the dreadful cliché) for ordinary people and this is just one possible measure. It's an interesting move (announcement). Successive governments have either been ideologically in hock to big business or scared of them – which is why I don't think it's been tackled although, IIRC, Cameron had floated some sort of idea on the issue a year or so ago. Yet even this morning, Miliband has hit back at the complaints from the energy companies. All rather unexpected.

Derwent wrote: Oh I don't disagree with the principle of it at all, my point is that like all politicians it is only an issue for them when there is something in it for them. In this particular instance its Miliband, but it could be said of most of the other new breed of political lightweights we seem to have in this country nowadays. So in answer to your question - yes someone should do something about it. I'm just asking why nobody did anything about it a few years ago because this isn't exactly a new issue for concern is it ? I'd like to think that there's been a bit of a genuine change, and realisation that 'something must be done' (sorry for the dreadful cliché) for ordinary people and this is just one possible measure. It's an interesting move (announcement). Successive governments have either been ideologically in hock to big business or scared of them – which is why I don't think it's been tackled although, IIRC, Cameron had floated some sort of idea on the issue a year or so ago. Yet even this morning, Miliband has hit back at the complaints from the energy companies. All rather unexpected.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:10 am  

The closest I've come to cheering a politician for as long as I can remember. It might well be too bold a move and the backlash might end up destroying him politically, but its better than giving up without any kind of fight.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:13 am  

Keith wrote:

The closest I've come to cheering a politician for as long as I can remember. It might well be too bold a move and the backlash might end up destroying him politically, but its better than giving up without any kind of fight.

One rather hopes that the the veiled threats from the energy companies might have a backlash – not least since they are, in many cases, foreign-owned, so you have an entire idea of furrin companies holding the country to ransom etc.

Doesn't make privatisation look any better either.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:00 am  

A large proportion of the price that energy consumers pay for energy is the environmental and carbon taxes that were introduced under the last Government to pay for the infrastructure changes that are needed to secure future energy supply. http://www.ovoenergy.com/energy-tariffs ... oney-goes/ Rather than regulating the markets in such a manner, they should be encouraging more competition and innovation in the sector and looking at alternative sources of energy. The only major economy that has seen energy prices for consumers fall in recent years in the USA, where they have put energy security as a major national priority. They have invested in other sources of energy such as fracking, and opened up markets to more competition.

A large proportion of the price that energy consumers pay for energy is the environmental and carbon taxes that were introduced under the last Government to pay for the infrastructure changes that are needed to secure future energy supply. http://www.ovoenergy.com/energy-tariffs ... oney-goes/ Rather than regulating the markets in such a manner, they should be encouraging more competition and innovation in the sector and looking at alternative sources of energy. The only major economy that has seen energy prices for consumers fall in recent years in the USA, where they have put energy security as a major national priority. They have invested in other sources of energy such as fracking, and opened up markets to more competition.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:11 am  

Mintball wrote:

One rather hopes that the the veiled threats from the energy companies might have a backlash – not least since they are, in many cases, foreign-owned, so you have an entire idea of furrin companies holding the country to ransom etc.

Doesn't make privatisation look any better either.

The thing is though that these foreign-owned companies are not in business to supply energy, they are in business to make money. That is their ultimate driving force.

If a freeze led to a situation where the cost of producing the energy is more than they can sell it for then it's highly probable that they would cease, or at least restrict, supply if that was the most economically benificial thing for them to do. Supplying energy is secondary to making (or not losing) money to them.

I'm not defending them for it and quite frankly they have manipulated prices for years through restricting supply but Miliband is playing a dangerous game talking about absolute freezes on prices. I don't see how he can make that work. I reckon we will eventually see a compromise where the energy companies margins are capped on a cost plus basis against wholesale market prices for a while. That's if Miliband ever gets into power of course.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:33 am  

Derwent wrote:

None of this is a new revelation is it ? Which begs the question of why Miliband didn't address it when he was Energy Minister in the previous government.......

Miliband was appointed in October 2008, I'd hazard a guess that there were other, far more pressing matters requiring government attention at the time. The energy companies have had plenty of time to offer more transparency in how they conduct their business, they have chosen to ignore them. Only now do they bleat about how unfair it all is

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:37 am  

Derwent wrote:

... If a freeze led to a situation where the cost of producing the energy is more than they can sell it for then it's highly probable that they would cease, or at least restrict, supply if that was the most economically benificial thing for them to do...

I'm still making my mind up about it all.
But I do recall reading some months back that, whilst the companies who sell us the energy aren't making huge profits, the companies they buy from (and largely own, IIRC) are really coining it in.
I need to read up on that.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:02 am  

EHW wrote: A large proportion of the price that energy consumers pay for energy is the environmental and carbon taxes that were introduced under the last Government to pay for the infrastructure changes that are needed to secure future energy supply. http://www.ovoenergy.com/energy-tariffs ... oney-goes/ Rather than regulating the markets in such a manner, they should be encouraging more competition and innovation in the sector and looking at alternative sources of energy. The only major economy that has seen energy prices for consumers fall in recent years in the USA, where they have put energy security as a major national priority. They have invested in other sources of energy such as fracking, and opened up markets to more competition. The problem with competition is that it only works up to a certain scale of project. Once you get to a certain point, there are only a small number of suppliers and you play the game by their rules. That's why I'm applauding Milliband for trying to take the energy companies on even though its probably doomed to failure.

EHW wrote: A large proportion of the price that energy consumers pay for energy is the environmental and carbon taxes that were introduced under the last Government to pay for the infrastructure changes that are needed to secure future energy supply. http://www.ovoenergy.com/energy-tariffs ... oney-goes/ Rather than regulating the markets in such a manner, they should be encouraging more competition and innovation in the sector and looking at alternative sources of energy. The only major economy that has seen energy prices for consumers fall in recent years in the USA, where they have put energy security as a major national priority. They have invested in other sources of energy such as fracking, and opened up markets to more competition. The problem with competition is that it only works up to a certain scale of project. Once you get to a certain point, there are only a small number of suppliers and you play the game by their rules. That's why I'm applauding Milliband for trying to take the energy companies on even though its probably doomed to failure.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:49 am  

Keith wrote:

The problem with competition is that it only works up to a certain scale of project. Once you get to a certain point, there are only a small number of suppliers and you play the game by their rules.

not sure what you mean by that?

If you look on the price comparison sites, the smaller competitors in the market are regularly cheaper than the Big 6. Ecotricity (a 100% green/renewables energy supplier) have this week announced that they will shortly reduce their prices.

These companies need to be encouraged to be innovative and introduce new ideas, not restricted by more regulation and legislation.

Re: When will Labour ditch Ed M? : Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:21 am  

EHW wrote:

not sure what you mean by that?

If you look on the price comparison sites, the smaller competitors in the market are regularly cheaper than the Big 6. Ecotricity (a 100% green/renewables energy supplier) have this week announced that they will shortly reduce their prices.

These companies need to be encouraged to be innovative and introduce new ideas, not restricted by more regulation and legislation.

Cross purposes I thought you meant increase competition for supply and distribution, not just the retail bit.